on my approach to the game remember this. After my post questioning what HA / HP was and how its calculated and reading about it after I googled it.. It seems to me to boil down to

the difference in what a winning bet for you is paid, less the amount that should be paid if everything was fair and even, to me its a small charge on my winnings that is assessed that

earns me the opportunity to stand there an attempt to get ahead. I know there are some out there that are gonna get on me for my style of play because there are some bets that are in

the 5 and 6% HA range. but the way I see it… if over the lifetime of my craps shooting days I end up being in the black $10,000 ( I have never concidered keeping track but I am gonna

start the next time we go) and my average HA is even 8% am i gonna look back an say “man I wish I had that other $800.”  Most likely not.  Now if this is the wrong way to look at it,

please enlighen me.

I developed this strategy some time ago when I started dating my future wife, who until she met me, had never set foot in a casino, but I wanted to introduce her to the game because I

enjoy it so.  Thru reading some threads on the forums here I discovered that what I do is nothing new, just not widely utilized. It may be because I use the Dont side, and the ratio of Dont

bettors to Do bettors, is like 1000’s of Do’s to a Dont. Just my observation I have no data to back this up, and thats another reason for me posting my Strat here, no data to back it up,

only years of experience, observations, trial and error. Trying to make a few bux, while earning enough to drink some beers, eat a nice meal at the up scale restaurant (like $200 for us

both to have a realy nice meal) earn a comp on a room at the casino now an then, or bash the Buffet, Saturday nights are Surf n Turf nights and its pretty Yummy and at $30 a piece not

bad for the money.  Ok so only like 18k characters left so I better get to my chosen strat. lol hope it dont take that many

Ok here it comes.

I start out with a DP bet of $10 - $20 depending on our bank roll that night, I like to hedge it with a $5 Big Red (any 7 4:1 po) if I am lucky enough to hit a 2 or 3 I will throw up at least a

$5 whirl. CO 7’s dont hurt me, CO Yo’s do but, they balance out with the 2’s an 3’s the way I see it. Once the point is established, my fiancee, will put up at least a $51, 5,6,8 iron cross

$15 on the 5 and $18 each 6 and 8)  and $10 in the field, (this keeps her busy, interested in the game,  I will hedge the IC investment by laying odds on my DP that are almost equal to or

slightly greater than the $61 she has on the felt + my CO hedge $5 Big Red (ie if the point is 5 my DP is $10 I lay $84) so if the shooter PSO’s then we break even and reload. I win $10

DP + ($84 lay yields $56)  $56 - $61 on the IC/FB - the $5 whirl = 0 we are looking for a long roll here. not to break even every time that would just be kooky.  Lets assume its not a PSO

tho and continue, shooter throws a 4 which makes us $10 from the Field she racks the $10, I peel $15 off my lay so its now $69, now if a 7 out comes we still break even, if not, another

number is rolled and we rack it and i peel off the lay the amount that would have covered what was just racked if a 7 out showed, say it was a 2, pays 2x FB for $20 off comes $30 of my

lay, doing this until we rack $40, once this level is reached,  I remove all my lay, leaving the DP bet up, after all it did make it thru the CO, she then tells the dealer to make her $51 5,6,8

look like 44 inside, (also picking up the FB no more FB at this point in the roll)  including the point if it is either 5,6,8 or 9.  now its rack a hit, get a $10 Ten next hit, rack a hit, get a $10

4 next hit, once we have all the numbers, she switches gears

once again, now its rack a hit, press one unit next roll on what ever hit, rack a hit, press one unit next roll, and we just press an play untill a the Point is resolved, if its made down comes

my DP but we are still up on the Place bets or vice a versa, we reload for next shooter, now believe me I know, you are probably sitting there pullin your hair out saying, what do you do if

early in the roll the shooter makes his point, well IT HAPPENS, thats Craps, thats why when we go we both cash in for at least $400 each total Bank of $800 this is more than enough to

tuff out quite a few early passes that destroy my DP and Lay. Eventualy theres gonna be some 8 or 10 or more throws that make us money. Once we get up around $100 to $150, we kick

in the money management portion of the Strat. After the point is resolved, what ever we racked, we divide by 2 .... half goes in our Black Crown Royal Bag( once its in the bag it dont

come out untill we are at the cage) the reamaining half is then divided in 2 again, she gets half to use to make her IC/FB and I get half to use on my DP / Big Red Hedge and Lay, and we

step it up a notch, the $51 5,6,8 $10 FB IC may go to a $68 5,6,8 ($20 on the 5 $24 each on the 6,8) and a $15 FB… if lady luck gives us our 5 rolls befor a 7 out, the $68 5,6,8 is then

asked to be made to look like $66 inside including the point. 5,6,8,9. back to getting a $10 or $15 Ten rack a hit, get a 4, rack a hit, Press one unit one roll, rack one roll etc. Point is

resloved one way or another, Pay the Crown Royal Bag, if its the end of the roll and reload, or if the point is made continue pressing or racking every other roll.

Oh I forgot, befor we divide up the profit from the roll, that goes in the CR bag,  first we do take out what we call a base 44 or from the profits from the roll we take $44 out to start our

next shooter with which gives us a starting platform of a $34 IC ($10 on the 5 and $12 each on the 6 and 8) $ 10 for the FB then to boost it up to the $51 or $68 IC we use money that

was not put in the CR bag the previous roll, or some of the $100 to $150 we made befor we kicked in money management mode. When we are up we will play some hunches like a nickle

on a hard 6 or 8… or maybe a $5 horn High Yo, we sometimes do the superstious things like if one or both of the die leaves the table she will turn her place bets off for a roll or 2, or at

stick change she will turn off untill all three dealers have moved to thier new positions, generaly no more than 1 roll, for the move, and maybe another just in case, lol.  we spice it up

some times she might pile on a number if it hasnt hit in a while ( 6 is her favorite) ie. instead of pressing say the 9 that just rolled one unit on the press roll, she will press the 6, and rack

a hit, next roll is a 10 in stead of pressing that, again she presses the 6, or sometimes if the table is choppy, on the press rolls, instead of pressing what hit, start piling on the lay, so when

the 7 comes, we make money on the back end thats fun to do sometimes, have a $15 DP down start piling on the lay, getting it up to $84 to $120 lay on a 9 point an 7 comes an making

extra $56 to $80 from the lay. but again only when we are up do we break the normal Strat have a little fun.

There it is…. like i asked in the beginning ... be gentle ... but feel free to critique.

The above rolls were by no mean real life they dont always go our way it was an example to fully show how we play, what we do in the good times of the long rolls when they do come around.

Its not fool proof by any means, I know this but, we are out to have fun, and maybe catch a long roll that nets us some nice coin, we have a stop loss of 50% of the buy in if the night is just horrible, so we never leave broke. Some nights we only make enough to cover gas money in the Jeep, drink a few beers, eat a meal, and have a blast. Its a great date, Some nights we make some serious coin, to me if we double up our buy in (make $800) thats serious coin. a few times we have made $1200 or more.  One time we came with $800 left with over $4200. We have also left at the stop loss level of $400 on some occasions cause the dice were just mean.

Any Comments or advice are welcome and if you feel u must ... tell me how retarded this is if that is your opinion

Thanks for your time.
Jeff

When will they do it?  When you have a bankroll that the Boxman considers worth holding that position, it WILL be done.  A couple hundred in chips will NOT be enough.  We are talking getting into the $1000 or more bankroll in the chip rail.  The dealers WILL keep an eye on your chips… but me… I just hold out until the point is hit, or a Seven Out, grab my chips and take the break. 

If the dealers do not know you, I would think anyone that they “think” looks like that player has returned, made a few bets, colors up and quickly leaves the vicinity.  Video cameras or not.

The Stock Pickers like to diversify their portfolio.  By making lots of stock bets… which they are… some may rise, some may fall and some just do nothing.  Eventually things average out and you hope to increase your investment(s) over time.  The MORE TIME you sit onto your stocks, the general thought is the portfolio will INCREASE in value.  Putting your investment income in one or a few stocks is RISKY BEHAVIOR.  Putting your investment income into various “funds” or in a “pie chart” of risky, not so risky and conservative stocks in the various industries available is way to protect your initial investment (bank roll to we Craps players).  You get the drift, I hope with the general thought of investing in stocks… so I can proceed to how this relates to CRAPS.  Investing in stocks is to diversify your portfolio with multiple companies and corporations.  Got it?!

This Stock Picking strategy that some Craps systems present are much like the stock market… but the WRONG STRATEGY.  To make MANY BETS AT A CRAPS TABLE, BETTING ON THE LOSING AND WINNING SIDE OF THE TABLE… will not work for you well.

Examples:

Playing the Don’t and Pass at the same time to minimize exposure.  Playing ALL numbers from 4 to 10 in the hopes a roll will hit often and frequently.  Putting money on long shot one roll bets with a high percentage of RISK built into the payout.  Having a bet win, pressing it with the expectation this number will hit again… and again… and…  Lots of wagers, spreading your bankroll across many “investments” will prove to be BAD STRATEGY in CRAPS, but a SMART MOVE in Stock market picks.

Lately, you could pick a Dow Jones stock and the next day it has gone up in value!  You could use a dart board, purchase the stock that the dart comes into contact… and you make money.  Much like some of these “exotic” betting schemes I read on the Forum… some times you CANNOT LOSE.  But, trust me.  Maxwell’s silver hammer will come crashing down onto your skull sooner than later.

I have always favored making the most of my wagers (bankroll) on the minimal amount of bets.  My Hit and Run Strategy opposes the Stock Picker’s Hold and Sit Strategy.  Although in the stock investment and the Craps strategy… they are the BETTER options than those I have followed from reading the Wall Street Journal or the Craps Forum.

What brought this on that I would present such a unorthodox twist between stock investing and playing Craps?  Here you have stock investors selling their equities like gold and silver to buy at the HIGH end of the stock market and selling their precious metals on a big decline.  Stupid and stupid, says I.  Eventually, and it could come sooner than later, the stock market will be eating the average investor alive with LOSSES.  Now in the stock picks at their current highs, selling precious metals at their current lows and taking on MORE RISK.  You do not LOSE if you SIT and pick your losses, as you lose when you SELL at a loss.  When playing Craps and the game is hot, numbers are confounding the statistical odds to the extreme and your “greed” kicks in pressing up your wagers expecting more and more…  And BANG.  Seven Out and you have just left your “investment” on the table and your “earnings” as well.  You feel foolish, but look around and there were bigger losers on the game than yourself giving you some sense of “relative getting wiped out”.

PLAY CRAPS LIKE YOU ARE INVESTING AS A DAY TRADER IN THE STOCK MARKET.  Play, but take out some profits in the process.  Do not always think that this winning cycle is going to continue.  It will not.  Someone, which would be the majority of us will be paying for the Casino’s overhead and other’s the Stock Broker’s commissions.  Play SMART.  Play a TIGHT MINIMAL HOUSE ADVANTAGE GAME.  Pick your battles with THEIR (Casino or Stock Brokerage’s money) on higher risk.  Never risk Bank Roll on extended “credit” or “extended” betting strategies.  You find the players making the “big wins” but discount the “big losses” that put them in deficit.  Never play with scared money.

I am certain I will think of other things to bring up, but once the idea hit me I had better get it typed out.  Do you have an opinion?  Am I walking around the Casino with my fly down?  Was I kicked in the head by a horse this morning?  Are my pants on too tight?  But keep to the Stock Market versus Craps Table strategy comparisons and how it relates to the wide variety of risky and conservative exposure to risk in both “markets”.

  Place 8 for $18

  Hop the 4 & 10 for $2 each

  6 is the place bet $5 on pass with $10 odds

  After 2 hits 5 & 9 are $6 and 8 is $6

  Takes too many hits at table minimum to see a profit.. I’m all ears. ($1500 bankroll)

  Thanks guys

I play Craps not to find myself in some fictional story about a guy finding a $5 chip on the sidewalk and owning some sawdust floored Casino the next morning playing at the table.  My game, detailed in previous posts so not to bore you with my simple game strategy again, pays off as well as loses for me, always dependent on what numbers are rolled, as you would expect.  My big profits come from… my Hardway Bets, working with/against my Place Bets or Pass Line bet.  If the hardways are far and few between, the Place Bets need to be hit enough to replace what chips of MY BANKROLL are in play and what chips are left on the table, after a Seven Out.  The goal is to have enough inside bets repeating and getting MY CHIPS from the Casino Bankroll and having these bets make a profit before giving them up to the House on a Seven Out.  Simple.  Break even and then your bets begin to work for YOU and no longer a financial risk to your original bank roll.  Although the chips remaining in play on the table, after breaking even, are your profit… any chips won at this point and put into your chip rack is profit no longer at risk.  You are also free to bring the Place Bets down believing the Seven Out is coming sooner than later… Your guess is as good as mine.

I play to Break Even on average rolls and make my gains on the long series of rolls, pressing of bets and covering my Hard Ways, usually the 6 and 8.  The Hard 6 or 8 may not appear during the entire time I am in play, or at times the hardway bets seem to be the smartest bet made on the table at other times.  The Hardway Bets are my profit makers when they are hitting.

There is no shame in playing to Break Even.  I play Craps for the entertainment AND to leave as a winner.  Not to make a living at a game that even the Casino cannot always make money in a 24 hour day after counting loses and daily overhead table costs.  There is not another game I will play that offers me, playing any system, at least a chance to win big, at some time, although not frequent enough.  Work with YOUR tested game strategy over the long haul, as the majority of times, just breaking even IS the best anyone can do.

If you are winning BIG or winning most, if not all of the time… write a book, as the secret would be worth $19.95 in soft cover.  Me… just call me Breaking Even.  I walk away with House Chips as often as I leave my chips on the table for the Casino to stack in twenty chips into their table’s bank.

So you have a game that Breaks Even over the long haul?  Good for you!  You have done something that has eluded the majority of Craps players.  There is nothing wrong with just breaking even.  Nothing at all and you would find yourself among a very small minority of players.

1: Bet 10 on Pass and 10 on dont pass.

2: Dice Rolled is 6, Bet 10 on Come and 10 on Dont come.

3: Dice Rolled is 8, Bet 10 on Come and 10 on Dont Come.

4: Dice rolled is 10…...STOP the Come and Dont Come Bet now, and take full odds on your Dont Come bet which is now moved to 10 .

Keep following these steps in a recursive manner.

This way i feel you can reduce the house edge to almost zero since all your DC and Come as well as Pass and Dont Pass bets even out, and you get paid on only the odds. Its actually a little on slower side, but so far the safest in terms of protecting your bankroll and money.
The only thing it needs is a strict discipline and lots of patience.
Please let me know your thoughts on it if you ever try it.
Sidd

I will wait till after the come out roll & point is established. Say the point is 8. After a roll or two, I wager $50 on the D/C and say the next point is 10. My 50 goes to the 10. To protect this bet, I immediately place $50 on the 10. So, I am betting the 10 wont roll but also the 10 will roll. Say the 10 hits, I lose the D/C 50 but win the 50 Place bet and profit 45. In the same scenario, say the 7 hits before the 10. I would lose the 50 place bet but break even on the 50 D/C bet. I would protect my bankroll and also profit if my D/C point hits. I would also keep the place working if the 8 were to hit before the 10. Is there any flaw with this strategy? Does it make any sense? I would appreciate any feedback? Thank you fellow rollers!

Dollar for dollar wagered the Place bet will out perform the Come/Odds.

Proof by example ($10 Table):

Player #1 Places the 9 for $10; Player #2 $10 Come bet.

9 is rolled:  Player #1 receives $14 and increases or presses the 9 to $40;  Player #2’s $10 Come goes to the 9 and places $30 odds.  (total wager on the 9 = $40)

9 is rolled again:  Player #1 receives $56 - total $70 for the two rolls;  Player #2 receives $55 for a total of $55 for the two winning rolls.

Now Player #1 has a couple of options:  (1) leave the wager as is; (2) go back to his original Place bet, $10; or (3) come down entirely.  Player #2 gets to have is chips returned only to start over again.

The 4/10 or 6/8 work pretty much the same as to returns basaed on their individual odds payouts.

So let’s have Goat Cabin, DeMango, and some of the more vocal “right” side bettors jump in with their “wisdom.”

falcon