what is a serious craps player? In my mind, a serious craps player is anyone who goes to the casino with an intent to win and knows the payouts, the odds, the house edge and the basic game play. We probably all qualify under these ideas. How he accomplishes his intent to win is based on his belief of the game. A player who believes the game is random is formulating his plan based on a random game....meaning he's not a DI, doesn't believe that past results influence future outcomes or that he has a way of knowing in advance what numbers may come up (charting, etc.) He's a serious player....he wants to win and does his best within his belief that the game is random. A dice influencer is under a different belief system but is also a serious player. He also is there to win. He feels he can alter random dice outcomes....so his belief system about the game is different but he maintains that same serious intent to win. A third player may believe he can see occurrences on the table that gives him a "window" (i.e. charting) into future results. His belief system is different than random or DI....but he is also serious in his intent to win. I don't know how to define a NOT serious craps player.... Undisciplined? Table time is most important? Lacking a goal? I guess an argument could be made....but based on the 3 players noted above, (random, DI and charting) we are all serious craps players. Some are betting $1 on the 6. Some are betting $1,000 on the 6....and many somewhere in between. I guess my point is that no one owns the term "serious craps player"....we all own it. With that in mind....KKJ, Liman and random roller are ALL serious players and as far as I know all 3 will admit to "enjoying playing craps". With that in mind....G, DaveCt and Demango are ALL serious players and as far as I know all 3 will admit to "enjoying playing craps". Any charters, predictors, etc....are ALL serious players. Intent to win and enjoying playing craps are NOT mutually exclusive. Now, there is another aspect to all this. Those players who have formulated their bankroll to betting to win goal using sound mathematical principals to establish the chances for success. These players are generally math whiz's who may have a leg up on the rest of us.