Another way of playing

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by KokomoJoe4, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. KokomoJoe4, Mar 23, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    On Friday, two guys set up next to me, each buying in for 2K. After watching the table a while, they both put it all on the DP. When a six came out, they let it ride for 3 or 4 rolls, then the one guy came down. The other pulled out more cash and CALLED a 2K place six just as the roll was coming - it hit and everyone was happy.

    I played for a little over an hour and things were very streaky - win 2 or 3 in a row, lose 2 or 3 in a row. Eventually went home down about $50.

    The Don't guys were a hoot with a lot of interesting conversation. After trying for it all on one bet, they settled down and started to play the DP for $200, usually laying double or quadruple odds, and occasionally playing no 4 and no ten without a line bet for a couple hundred each. They seemed to do pretty well, but I left in a hurry after putting out my biggest bet of the day on what was my last shoot and losing it.
     
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  2. basicstrategy777, Mar 24, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    To win big you have to bet big.

    777
     
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  3. The Comeback Kid, Mar 24, 2014

    The Comeback Kid

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    Thanks for sharing, Joe.
    A most intriguing style for sure and one, I believe, favors the player.
    Maybe any one of our resident math geniuses can explain why.

    But it's an approach that has merit, as I've been using it successfully on other shooters all year.
    Let me explain.
    Rather than a line bet with odds & perhaps $32/$44 across, I'll go $120 on a corresponding number to the point and wait. I watch and see if numbers are lining up for me. I'll give my bet maybe 4 rolls. If it doesn't hit I pull down & see what occurs.

    For a point 6, I like the 9. For the 4 I like the 8. For the 5 I like the 10. If it hits - pull down and wait. If the roll's progressing nicely I place or buy the point and continue building up the table as appropriate.

    The benefit is that it gets you faster to playing with; house money.
    And is there anything sweeter...
     
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  4. Liman

    Liman Member

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    so let me guess, did they have a crystal ball with them?
    they watched the table until they knew the dice weren't going to seven on a comeout roll.
    yeah, everyone looks like a genius when the dice give them a break.
    And once the point was established, his odds of winning were greater so I don't get the reason he takes bet down. was it because his crystal ball told him to do so?

    every system works as long as the table goes in your favor.
     
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  5. The Comeback Kid, Mar 24, 2014

    The Comeback Kid

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    I do have a crystal ball, and you do too - it's called intuition.
    You're never too old to learn it's nuances. Even you can do it Liman.

    Getting in and out plays to what 777 says; that most rolls are short affairs.
    But don't take my word for it, test it yourself. How many rolls make it past the 10 count? How many make it past 5?

    I think I've made my point and the defense rests.
     
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  6. basicstrategy777, Mar 24, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    Most people don't put much credence in voo-doo...intuition...your gut...etc ; I think that's a mistake; what I like about The Kid is that these things factor into his game. Just because you can't explain it, or see it, or touch it, or smell it....doesn't mean it doesn't exist...kinda like God.

    777
     
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  7. Southern-Comfort, Mar 24, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    The next roll is not influenced by the past rolls... in the short game. But, in order for the long game to even out at end of day (or week or month...) the past rolls do seem to influence the future rolls. So, watching what happened can be a wise move. We all cringe at the danger of the Martingale, but really.. isn't it the simple perfect system? Damn casinos and their silly maximum limits screwing with perfection! Cheaters!
    Sorry, mind went off on a tangent. But, using the past rolls to divine the next single roll is not wise. However, using the past 10 rolls to divine what is going to happen during the next 10 rolls.. still not the ability to see the future, but probably more accurate.
     
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  8. Liman

    Liman Member

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    none of that holds water for me.
    Id hate to be the guy that pulls money off every 3rd role, and some guy hits 5 points on the 4th role each time.
    Im content with my game, I limit my losses, and try to maximize my bets without giving it all back when I win.
    Im happy with my results, results that have nothing to do with intuition.
    Do I have stupidstitions? yep, but I know when I walk up to a table and leave that table none of them had anything to do with anything.
    that's the stupid gambler in me, the smarter one knows nothing I do will effect the outcome of the dice, and if I don't watch and manage my bets closely, I will lose more and at a more rapid pace.
    The smart person in me, tells me I shouldn't play craps at all, but I need the action now and then to keep my blood flowing evenly.
    I don't drink or use intuition when I play craps.they are both things that would foul up my play.
     
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  9. basicstrategy777, Mar 24, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    You have used intuition before and it has proved out....you knew someone would call and they call.......you knew someone was in trouble/died and that was the case......you knew the numbers would come up 5-3 , you hopped the bet and 5-3 showed.....

    Intuition is the greatest gift of human consiousness that exits. It is a natural phenomenom that everyone possesses. It would not be a good thing to study under somneone that only has book learning. You want someone that also has a wealth of experience. If you do, they will bring in the factor of intuition.

    Neuropsychologists and parapsychologists both agree that the experience of intuition is a function of the right cerebral cortex or "right brain".These same people say the right brain is also responsible for love, fear, saddness, ceativity, impulsiveness....all immeasurable, unquantifiable, intangible.You can't quantify love but you know when you're in love...you can't quantfy anxiety but you can measure it's effects on the body...you can't quantify creativity but you can buy the results of it and hang it on your wall. Science cannot quatify intuiton but you can see evidence of it's existence, as verbalized by those that have experienced it.

    Science would call intuition coincidence or luck. Those scientists are non-believers
    inspite of experiences they have experienced. This makes them small minded and bordering on stupid, IMHO.

    Do not underestimate the powers of the mind. It can make things happen and forsee the future. Next time you are at the table and your point is eight. Look at the dice...gentlely blow some life into them....and think mightly of 5-3.

    Trust me.


    777
     
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  10. The Comeback Kid, Mar 24, 2014

    The Comeback Kid

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    I believe you're referring to the law of big numbers (averages) which is interesting, but that's the casino's game, and since I don't own one; it's irrelevant to me. And anyhoo, what's the use in being accurate if you never get beyond that 10 roll count?

    Predominately our focus should be on the short game - somewhere under the 10 count, while anticipating that sweet long roll we all love, and may they come abundantly every trip. So how do you know? That's for you to decide. Can't teach it. That's the art of the short game.

    If we all agree that playing with house money is the preferred modus operandi, therefore, getting in and out with as much % of your bankroll that's appropriate makes sense, especially if you go often. You get to mold the clay. Then if the momentum's flowing pretty good - no one's tied your hands, have they? Get back in pressing & collecting 'till the cows come home.

    If you're a pass line, with odds & $32/$44 across every shooter - that's OK, but know you're in for a rough ride.
    I'm just sayin...

    And kudos to 777.
    I had a premonition he was going to post something like that.
     
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  11. Liman

    Liman Member

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    ok, so I guess in some eyes Im stupid, Ive been called worse.

    sure Ive bet hop bets, the dumbest thing any player can do, better off betting a slot machine. that makes me stupid, and its not intuition, its more like praying for it to hit.

    Ill stick to what I always thought about craps, its just a game about stats,
     
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  12. Southern-Comfort, Mar 24, 2014

    Southern-Comfort

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    The 10 roll was, of course, only an example. Point being, the longer you stay, the more you are able to utilize the gravity of the long roll. We only "see" the short roll because it is the obvious experience to the player. the casino only sees the long roll.. the Boards of Directors are oblivious to the 2 hour rolls, they just can't see them. But, both, the casino and the players, do play in both the long and short rolls simultaneously. Please do not ask me to explain Relativaty! Anyway, the longer you "track" play, the more accurate you can be at predicting what will be coming soon. It will even out. It doesn't have to. Theres no law saying a casino cannot open a table and the first roller never getting a seven in his lifetime. But, long term experience gives us reason to believe that isn't going to happen. So, intuition is a reasonable thing... I haven't seen an 11 all day, its due... I've seen an awful lot of 11's today, I'll bet on 11. Neither is a reasonable bet, yet both are. Therein lies intuition. Which way to bet. The choice is yours. How do you feel.
     
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  13. KokomoJoe4, Mar 24, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    that is certainly the name of the game CB. In terms of risk, I guess it comes down to how much the initial big bet, if lost, puts a damper on your day. Sven and Ollie, as I was calling the two guys, certainly werent afraid putting it all on the line at the start.

    I guess I can afford to play buying in for 2K, but for my thinking, it is not the way to play, and in fact I never have. I greatly desire to make large wagers, but am too cheap to do it with what I brought in. I'd be a bit grumpy if my buy-in disappeared at the first bet.
     
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  14. basicstrategy777, Mar 24, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    Although the surest way to double your money is to make one bet I don't think I have the onions to do it.

    I guess you have to ask yourself....

    777
     
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  15. KokomoJoe4, Mar 24, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    LOL, I really have to get to the movies more. Did I detect a little bit of Clint there?
     
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  16. basicstrategy777, Mar 24, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    You should rent The Mask it's got some great lines. You'd enjoy it....

    The Mask: [to Tina] Kiss me, my dear, and I will reveal my croissant. I will spread your pate. I will dip my ladle in your vichyssoise.

    777
     
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  17. TDVegas, Apr 4, 2014

    TDVegas

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    Guy next to me playing $25 on the don't pass. If the point established was a 5-6-8-9, he would buy the non point numbers (except never 4-10) for $25 each and also take $25 odds on the don't. He would never bet the point. If a 4 or 10 was the point he would have $25 on don't and double odds and not play any of the numbers. I didn't do the math but would presume this was a hedge play with little chance
     
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  18. KokomoJoe4, Apr 5, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    While there is something to be said for protecting your bankroll, hedging doesn't appeal to me and I just don't do it. I think a better protective method is to minimize bets in action, especially when playing Right.
     
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  19. basicstrategy777, Apr 5, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    I'm with you Kokomo, although there are specific situatons when I will hegde.

    I have no clue what the player the OP was describing was trying to do. 'Taking' odds on a Don't 5/9 or buying it for 25 makes no sense.....not betting the box numbers when he had a No 4/10 makes no sense either.

    The classic definition of a hedge is to bet a little to protect alot.

    Hey....to each his own.

    777
     
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  20. Sancho Panza, Apr 5, 2014

    Sancho Panza

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    That means that he laid $100 odds against the point in addition to the $25 on the line, right?
     
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