AR-15 and the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Offtopic Lounge' started by basicstrategy777, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. basicstrategy777, Feb 22, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    IN defense of the AR-15 and the second amendment.......



    " I think a lot of people forget that the second amendment is not to allow you to own a gun to deer hunt, or just to protect your family from home invaders, but to protect you from your own government if it becomes too oppressive!!! Please educate yourselves: http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/…/2nd-amendment-original-m…/ A disarmed public is a vulnerable and lost public. Having millions of us citizens armed is a powerful balance against keeping the government from going too far. It is also one of the reasons the Japanese chose NOT to try and invade in WW11. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Some say this quote is unsubstantiated as being spoken by Admiral Yamamoto, but I believe the sentiment was held by many Japanese and other hostile forces around the world. "




    2nd Amendment: Original Meaning and Purpose

    When the Constitution was signed on September 17, 1787, federalists claimed the new government would only have limited powers expressly delegated to it. This wasn’t enough for anti-federalists like George Mason, who wanted explicit guarantees to certain rights in order to prevent any potential encroachment by the federal government.

    One of them was the right to keep and bear arms. Mason wrote:

    “A well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State”

    The Founding Fathers, having just broken away from Great Britain, understood the new federal government they were ratifying might one day become just as tyrannical. If it had the authority to control citizen access to firearms, then it could disarm them, just as the British attempted to do. This would make any attempts to restore liberties futile.

    The Second Amendment was specifically included in the Bill of Rights to prevent this.

    Two centuries later, we are in an ideological struggle with gun control advocates attempting to alter the meaning of the Second Amendment in order to allow for federal restrictions on our right to bear arms. Not surprisingly, they completely ignore what the ratifiers of the Constitution and the Second Amendment had to say, because all pertinent historical documents contradict them.

    For example, when the Founders wrote of a “well regulated” militia, they meant militias needed to be well regulated through training and drilling in order to be effective in battle. This could only happen if citizens had unrestricted access to firearms.

    James Madison, the father of the Constitution, said in 1789 that “A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”

    An example of a well regulated militia under Madison’s definition were the Minutemen at Concord and Lexington, who had drilled on fields in preparation for war.

    As to the meaning of the word “militia,” it has nothing to do with the National Guard. There is already a clause in the Constitution that specifically authorizes arming them.

    So what is a militia as defined by the Founders? Mason said they were “the whole people, except for a few public officials.”

    In fact, there was a universal acceptance among both federalists and anti-federalists as to the importance of the right to bear arms.

    Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist 28 that “if the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense,” a right which he declared to be “paramount.”

    And then there is clause “shall not be infringed.” There is no exception to this contained anywhere in the amendment.

    Zacharia Johnson, a delegate to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, summed up the meaning of the Second Amendment when he declared that “The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them.”

    Full possession. Not some. Not most. Full possession of their weapons. The feds were to keep their hands off entirely.

    The Founders made it very clear what the Second Amendment means. But if we do not fight against any and all attempts by the feds to infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms, then it loses all relevant meaning.




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OhBBC_Cyeo

    [​IMG]
    2nd Amendment: Original Meaning and Purpose
    We are in an ideological struggle with gun control advocates attempting to alter the meaning of the Second Amendment in order to allow for federal restrictions on our right to bear arms.

    TENTHAMENDMENTCENTER.COM|BY TJ MARTINELL

    777
     
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  2. badddoin, Feb 22, 2018

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    There IS logic in this argument, and more than a little. However, when this logic is followed to its inevitable conclusion, there's absolutely no reason for the government to infringe on its citizens to keep and bear all arms. Why are fully automatic weapons so heavily regulated? What about bombs? Or, at least grenades, right? To adequately defend oneself against THIS government, he'd also need a substantial nuclear arsenal, and an adequate delivery system.

    Warfare was a little different in the eighteenth century, and I don't suppose the founders were much up to the task of predicting what was in store for weaponry.

    I'm guessing they were mostly concerned about this new republic falling apart in the near future - a situation where the majority of the army defected, or something of that nature.

    It's always seems a little comical to me when I hear people talking about defending themselves from this government with an AR15. The United States has the baddest, best trained military the world has ever seen.

    I've owned guns my whole life. Actually, at this particular minute in history, I DON'T happen to own one, but that's a different story altogether. There's plenty of guns that I have easy access to.

    That being said, I still am in support of more gun regulation. There's just too many guns floating around in our society. They're too easy to obtain, and there's not nearly enough consequences when someone doesn't take the precautions necessary for the ownership of something so dangerous.

    One of my brothers is an NRA member - gun nut, through-and-through. Couple of years ago, he bought a 9mm from an ad on CL, for my mother. He meets the guy at a convenience store, hands him the cash, and away he goes with the gun. No background check, no ID, no nothing, and where we live, perfectly legal. Even he had to admit that's effed-up.
     
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  3. Grizzoola, Feb 22, 2018

    Grizzoola

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    The question is, Whether the FFs drafted the 2d, knowing it would lead to the mayhem we see in our society from the gun. I don't think so. I think they had no idea what it would lead to. The 2d should be repealed so that states & local jurisdictions can determine how much & what kind of gun use should be permitted in their jurisdictions. Just like gambling.
     
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  4. Mssthis1, Feb 22, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    Is it mayhem or is it propaganda? Gun deaths per capita in the US are at historical lows and much lower than what they were in 1776.
     
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  5. AzDice, Feb 22, 2018

    AzDice

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    I grew up hunting. Hunting big and small game. Bird hunting also.
    I understand the second amendment was not about the right to own hunting weapons.
    There is no need for AR-15s in public use. You and your neighbors are not over taking the government if they become to oppressive. Look at recent history of terrorist trying to arm themselves against American invasion. They have more powerful weapons than guns and have failed to protect themselves.
    I'm all for the second amendment but when it was written. It was written for citizens to protect themselves. It was not written for citizens to have the right to purchase weapons to massacre innocent people.
     
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  6. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    Why stop there, everybody should have their own atomic bomb? What proportion of the people have to be in agreement, before we're allowed to start killing something? :) Hamilton would have never lost that dual, if he would of had his atomic bomb with him. :D
     
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  7. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    NOW you're talkin'....glad to see you are coming around.

    777
     
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  8. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    100 million people with 300 million guns is a fairly strong force.......you think the US military could beat that force, spread out all over the country. There are alot of vets out there that would fight an oppressive gov't ; not to mention hunters, cowboys and partriotic citizens.

    There are 10 original amendments...and to be #2, must mean the framers thought it was pretty important.

    Those 27 words, written over 200 years ago, are very, very clear and impossible to min-interpret.

    Read um' and weep.

    777
     
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  9. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    They are very obviously NOT impossible to misinterpret. You very obviously missed the purpose of my last post, which was to illustrate one very obvious misinterpretation. There is always some GD ridiculous SOB that doesn't understand the responsibility that comes with freedom. He wants to keep a "pet" lion, or king cobra, in his back yard, or a F'kin piranha in his fish tank, or wants a Vulcan mini gun, for home protection. There are limits to everything, and in the case of amendment number 2, it is the U.S. Supreme Court, which has the responsibility, to interpret, and decide what is or is not constitutional, NOT the NRA. :cool:
     
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  10. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    There IS a problem, and we as a society, need to try to address it. Why don't you compare the gun deaths to 1863, if your just going to be ridiculous. :)
     
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  11. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    VD.....There are federal laws about what type of guns you can possess.....I believe a Vulcan would fall under..."You can't have one of those" law.

    I believe , fair is fair.....as soon as the Trumpster tacks on a few more justices, the SC rulings will be REAL fair. I like my chances.........and because fair is fair,, I shall abide by their rulings about the 2nd amendment. (and the rest of the country will HAVE TO abide by their ruling as well.)

    I especially like the part that says.."........the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” That's a tough one to figure out what it means, but I have confidence they'll be able to figure it out.

    777
     
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  12. badddoin, Feb 23, 2018

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    You gun nuts are delusional. Remember that the U.S. military had the Iraqi military surrounding to drones and journalists in 100 hrs.
     
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  13. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    [​IMG]



    Iraqi's ?.......who the fuck are they.....real fighting machines.

    If we did it to the English oppressors in 1776....we can do it to a tyrannical US gov't in 2076.

    Don't under-estimate pissed off Americans fighting for a cause......we can do damage.

    777
     
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  14. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    Contemplate for a moment, how difficult it is to live off the land, especially if there is a couple hundred million others trying to do the same thing. I doubt very seriously, that very many, if any, would be prepared for total anarchy. It would not be like Giligans Island man. :)
     
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    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
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  15. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    Liberal elitists can't live off the land......Deplorables can.

    777
     
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  16. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    You wouldn't last a month. :)
     
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  17. badddoin, Feb 23, 2018

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    Shoot, I didn't realize you had a can of the good stuff. I stand corrected.
     
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  18. basicstrategy777, Feb 23, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    The 2nd amendment is going nowhere....the AR-15 is going nowhere......there will be armed good guys in schools.......background checks will be tightened up......there will be better communication between agencies......something will be done RE: mental health..........Trump will make it happen.

    The dems will resist and will be looking for CONTROL of the populace......not fixing problem with common sense solutions.

    777
     
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  19. von duck, Feb 23, 2018

    von duck

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    "Mental Health" yes, there in, lies the problem, and just possibly the solution. :) Lobotomy anybody?
     
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  20. basicstrategy777, Feb 24, 2018

    basicstrategy777

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    You are not going to fix mental health......controlling who is allowed to have a gun using mental health as a reason, is a very, very slippery slope......it's the reason Trump recently reversed a dumbo-ears regulation RE: social security recipients and mental health reporting........the interpretation of mental health can be trickly......feeling down...anxiety...depression........who doesn't have this ?..........The obvious is obvious....some clown politician transforming the not-obvious into the obvious, has me concerned. However, it definately has to be looked at very carefully. After all, only mentaly ill/disturbed peiople kill children.

    777
     
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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
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