Beginner needs advice on practicing Place Betting

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by JCinPA, May 20, 2019.

  1. JCinPA, May 20, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Gents (and ladies),

    I am really new at this game, at least in a serious way. I played a little at a conference in Las Vegas earlier this month and since then have had 5 sessions playing about 8 1/2 hours on $10 tables using primarily Three Point Molly (or starting with two points, taking a win, then going to 3) and I am able now to understand what is going on and track my bets and payouts pretty well. So now I want to incorporate Place Betting in my game, and practice that a bit until I get good at tracking those.

    I've heard you guys ask other beginners what our goals and objectives are, and at this point for me, it is still to practice as cheaply as I can while I continue to get used to the game. Although I'm up, cumulatively, for my 5 sessions, I have experienced more variance than I'd like--up $350, down $300 in a couple of sessions--and I'd like to narrow that a bit if I can. My goal is to learn place betting and get as good at tracking them and the payoffs as I am now at the Pass Line and Come bets, and to do that cheaply.

    I'm curious what strategies you folks would recommend to a beginner with these goals. I was next to a very gregarious guy from Texas yesterday at the Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, IL and watched him win over $1,000 playing the Pass Line, then betting the inside numbers for a unit. If one hit, he'd press it (always), if it hit again, he'd take the winnings, leave the 2 unit bet working, and if it hit subsequent times, he'd press it one unit each time, taking the excess winnings. He won an ATS, which helped a lot, of course, but he had put a lot on the ATS over the time I watched him, but I got very interested in Place Bets.

    A very conservative way to play it, I guess, would be to Place the 6/8, take the winnings and take the bets down after one hit and wait for the outcome on the Point. A less conservative, but still not wild (I think) way would be to Place the 6/8, take the winnings and leave the bets working until the Point is decided. Or, do what he did, but only on the 6/8 (not sure I want to play all the inside yet, my variance might not be any better than Three Point Molly, and I understand the house edge is lower on the 6/8 than the 5/9 or 4/10), press the first hit, take the next one, then press a unit take the excess winnings on subsequent hits.

    Anyway, I'm looking for a rote method to practice with where I can get used to how the bets look, track them, get the bet amounts and payouts in my head. I figure I can probably master this in another session, it's not that complex, but what would you folks suggest for my next session, relatively low variance practice play, that is easy to memorize and deploy? Thanks!

    -John
     
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  2. Mssthis1, May 20, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    What is the typical min bet at Rivers for placing the 6/8? $6, $12, $18, or $30?

    Since you don't want a lot of volatility you may want to do 1 hit and down or same bet until you get what you have invested on the layout back until you get your feet wet.
     
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  3. von duck, May 20, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Where did you learn the term " three point molly"? JC. To be honest, you don't sound like any beginner to me. In fact, you sound kind of familiar. Ever been to Joyzee?
     
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  4. JCinPA, May 20, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Haha, learned it here, as a matter of fact. I only played every several years before this month and the hardest thing for me in the last 5 sessions was keeping track of everything going on on the table. It can move pretty fast and there is a lot to process for me.

    Yeah, 6/8 for $6 (to answer that question-they want $6 for 6/8 on a $5 table, $12 on a $10 table which is more likely) and then down is really conservative. But I’m looking more for combining a pass line bet with place bets but gentle enough to not get my face ripped off.

    Pass line and place 6/8 (if not the point) then take them down on a cold table? Leave them working on choppy table, press them on a hot table, and after a few wins place other numbers? I’m just looking for a simple to remember pattern while I wrap my little peabrain around the new bets/payoffs. I’m pretty comfortable with three point molly now, but would like to lower my variance a bit and add some variety to my play.

    This is addictive, but I seem to be able to resist the siren call of the carnival bets now, and I’m not the adrenaline junky who needs fast action. I think I’ll just play around with a pass line and 6/8 next session, shouldn’t be too dangerous (he says confidently) while I get comfortable with it. Still open to conservative patterns if anyone wants to share.

    I just bought Wincraps Pro, too, so I can practice at home now and keep my money sessions to once weekly. :D

    -John
     
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  5. lone irish digit, May 20, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    Mr. JC in Pa said:

    I'm curious what strategies you folks would recommend to a beginner with these goals. I was next to a very gregarious guy from Texas yesterday at the Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, IL and watched him win over $1,000 playing the Pass Line, then betting the inside numbers for a unit. If one hit, he'd press it (always), if it hit again, he'd take the winnings, leave the 2 unit bet working, and if it hit subsequent times, he'd press it one unit each time, taking the excess winnings. He won an ATS, which helped a lot, of course, but he had put a lot on the ATS over the time I watched him, but I got very interested in Place Bets.



    This is Barney

    If one of these two Texans were giving you advice about the game of the craps, it would be wise to listen to one of the personages...


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  6. lone irish digit, May 20, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    Mr. JC in Pa said:

    I'm curious what strategies you folks would recommend to a beginner with these goals. I was next to a very gregarious guy from Texas yesterday at the Rivers Casino in Des Plaines, IL and watched him win over $1,000 playing the Pass Line, then betting the inside numbers for a unit. If one hit, he'd press it (always), if it hit again, he'd take the winnings, leave the 2 unit bet working, and if it hit subsequent times, he'd press it one unit each time, taking the excess winnings. He won an ATS, which helped a lot, of course, but he had put a lot on the ATS over the time I watched him, but I got very interested in Place Bets.



    This is Barney

    If one of these two Texans were giving you advice about the game of the craps, it would be wise to listen to one of the personages...


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Edward-ky, May 20, 2019

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    You could skip the pass line bet when you are not shooting and place bet the point. I would ease into it maybe a couple of place bets. Maybe just watch the table s little bit and see what numbers appear to be rolling more. I’ll even ask the dealers what numbers are rolling a lot. There are many ways to play and you’ll have to figure out what risk reward you are comfortable with. Depending how the table is going would give you a better idea whether to press or take.
     
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  8. Night Attack, May 20, 2019

    Night Attack

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    TDVegas taught him in one of his other threads. Try and keep up will ya!
     
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  9. von duck, May 21, 2019

    von duck

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    TD never says what three point molly IS, he just says he uses that strategy. I've never seen the term defined, on this forum, or in any books, so my question stands, where did JC learn what a three point "molly" was
    I think you're right though, about the source, oh so right. :) How's things in "Melbourne", I here they're getting a lot of rain in Florida. :D
     
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  10. Night Attack, May 21, 2019

    Night Attack

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    JCinPA (who is actually JCinIL) explained his method of play to which TDV replied as being a three point molly. So I guess that is about as close an explanation from TDV as we'll get on what a three point molly is.

    I have no idea how things are in Melbourne. I don't live there.
    Florida? Sounds like a trap!
     
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  11. JCinPA, May 21, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    I Googled it. Every time I hear a term here, I look it up. So TD mentioned it, I immediately Googled it and realized I had been (sorta) doing that all along. I'm trying to learn the lingo both here and at the table. Playing on Wincraps a bit to make learning a little less expensive.

    I'm coming to the conclusion, which I think I should have figured out on my own, the way to reduce bankroll fluctuation isn't in how I make bets, but in having less money on the table. Makes sense. The place 6 & 8 are (in the long run, if I don't take them down) going to end up losing me 1.52% per bet resolved vs 1.41% for the Pass Line. But I have $12 out placing the 6 or 8 vs $20 for a $10 Pass + $10 odds. Or I have $24 out covering both, but more chances to hit. The percentages are a little different, but if my bankroll fluctuation is lower, it's probably because I'm putting less on the table for the Seven to wipe out.

    I think I'd get the same result I'm looking for (or fairly similar) by reducing the number of Come bets on a cold table, and bringing them up on a hot table. Place bets maybe help on a cold table because I can spread $24 over both the 6 & 8 rather than say a $20 come bet which goes to the 4/10. Hmmmm. Did I just have an "Aha Moment"? Yes, on cold tables spreading your dollars around is better, on hot tables increasing the number of come bets with odds is better. Would that be correct thinking?

    The former gives you more chances to hit a number with smaller dollars involved. The latter concentrates more dollars on fewer number but you have a chance at bigger wins. Am I figuring this out correctly or no? I know Night Attack advised changing play based on what's working, maybe this was what he was referring to? That session where I blew through my whole $300 stack might have lasted longer, or I might have only blown through $200 if I had shifted from the three point Molly to a pass & place 6/8?

    P.S. The JCinIL or JCinPA is because the family and house are in PA. I work out of a Chicago apartment. But I'm hoping to get back to PA sometime.
     
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  12. KokomoJoe4, May 21, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

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    Playing the Do at craps involves being the underdog on every roll of the dice if you are one of the advantage players who avoid making contract bets.

    For those who play the contract bets, you are the favorite for one roll of the dice.

    Since all bets except working come out rolls have you as the underdog, it is to the players advantage to make as few wagers as possible. Zero is as few as possible, and trust me, this works pretty well.

    Next best is one bet at a time. If/when ahead playing this way, make your one wager aggressively larger, but not so large as to take you from positive to negative should a loser occur.

    Continue with this until a loser occurs. Trust me, it will occur. When it does, call it a session.

    Good luck, unless you are an advantage player.
     
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  13. basicstrategy777, May 21, 2019

    basicstrategy777

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    How you do early often dictates how you will end up.........losing early is bad......hard to recover.......a short hand is the order of business at the craps table; it is what happens most often.............you might consider making a PL bet, no odds.....going thru the come box 3 times, no odds.....if you 7 out while doing this, you are either not hurt or not hurt bad......start putting odds on all bets after the 5th roll........keep putting out come bets until all numbers are covered.....odds you bet are a function of buy in.........eventually convert all come bets to place bets.....take all bets down the roll before the 7 shows.......

    777
     
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  14. Night Attack, May 21, 2019

    Night Attack

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    I wouldn't suggest spreading anything out on a cold table.
     
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  15. JCinPA, May 21, 2019

    JCinPA

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    Interesting, 777, I’ve not seen that before, but I am a noob. So if I make a couple of come bets, you’re suggesting if they hit I convert to a place bet on that number? I’m guessing to reduce the number of chips exposed to the 7?
     
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  16. JCinPA, May 21, 2019

    JCinPA

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    NA, that makes sense. I should match the pace and type of action to what’s going on at the table.
     
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  17. basicstrategy777, May 21, 2019

    basicstrategy777

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    The idea is to avoid getting hurt very early in the hand, which can happen often.........I keep going thru the come box till all numbers covered and at some point converting them to place bets.....it's your call when to convert,early or late, .......come bets forces you to take some profits when they are off and on....they serve as a hedge....they pay more than place bets over 5 times odds.....when they lose on a comeout 7 it's not that much as you only lose the flat......they win on a natural when in the come box........when you replace them with place bets you can regress the bet or bet it up, whatever you like.........the main idea is to minimize early losses......if the hand is long you have no problems.........

    777
     
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  18. lone irish digit, May 21, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney

    According to the LID what's going on at table means nothing. There are no hots or cold table or dices unless casino has air or heat on too much. What happened on table is past and has no bearing on next toss. This is why the LID and the Max Planck built the craps time shifting device.

    Every toss of dices is an independent event. A personage who thinks table is hot or cold is experiencing the craps probability. Which means he is probably going to lose. Thinking like this is just superstitious behavior like the Dave Guacamole. If you think table has the hots or colds you probably believe in the bigfoot or the JP personage too.

    The only way to win at the craps is too change the probability of each toss or just get lucky. Therefore, smart personages need to learn how to toss the dices, but the bestest crap books, and wear most greatest DI craps apparel to change probability for each toss of dices.
     
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  19. lone irish digit, May 21, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney

    According to the LID what's going on at table means nothing. There are no hots or cold table or dices just a hot Jacob forum that is pissing me offs.
     
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  20. Mssthis1, May 21, 2019

    Mssthis1

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    Are you using the resources from this forum to power your time shifting device? Are the resource errors occurring the same time you're here a coincidence?

    You'd better be careful, you may end up in 1860's Texas like that other time traveler guy if you time shift while the bull shitting wannabe Texan is also using forum resources.
     
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