Biased dice?

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by 3iron, May 10, 2018.


  1. 3iron

    3iron Member

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    Newbie. Never been on a forum before. Seen a lot of very unusual dice sessions recently at an Indian casino. (Like 8 twelves in a 36 throws session). Lot of locals complain about heavy 1-6 outcomes, making an inordinate number of twos, twelves and sevens. Wondering if the use of cards in California is to protect casinos from patrons or to protect patrons from biased dice? Have already heard the "Why would they cheat when they already have an advantage?" response. (Answer: Greed and an infinitesimal chance of repercussion.) Maybe cards would be good in my state also. At least it would allay player suspicions. What do you think?
     
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  2. tabletop123, May 10, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Indian Casinos can operate with total impunity. When you play on Sovereign land....it's their dice..their rules! It's almost like....." Buyer Beware"!
     
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  3. Mssthis1, May 10, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    If you truly believe what you say lay the 6 and 8.
     
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  4. The Midnight Skulker, May 10, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

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    IF these observations are caused by biased dice you are most likely dealing with six-ace flats. Believe it or not the bet that goes player positive first as the bias is increased is ...
    ... THE FIELD!

    Furthermore, IF you are confident you are dealing with six-ace flats and have some dice influencing ability, then, when you are the shooter, take Mssthis1's advice and lay both 6 and 8, and use the parallel sixes set coming out. Keep using that set if 6 or 8 becomes the point, but take down the lay bets and change to the railroad track sixes set if shooting for an outside point.
     
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  5. Morgue, May 11, 2018

    Morgue

    Morgue Member

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    For full effect, I opened up the drum roll video before I read what the answer was. I quite enjoyed that! Ha.
     
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  6. von duck, May 11, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    It might also be noted that even though they are "Indian Casinos" they are generally operated by mainstream casino corps. Therefore I might add, "buyer beware" ALWAYS! :cool: Who do you think teaches who, what is possible? Just the way it is, that's all.
     
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    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  7. von duck, May 11, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Then how did you know we refer to them as newbies? :confused: :cool: :D We don't "think" we let TD think for us, cause he's really smart and the rest of us are really stupid. If you don't believe me, just ask him, he'll tell you so himself. :) :D.
     
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    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  8. Mssthis1, May 12, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    Thanks midnight. Never thought about the field before. If dice were 6/1 heavy and roll 1 extra seven in 36 rolls you should also get one extra 3 or 11 and 2/3 of 1 extra 4 or 10 . In theory at least. I'm still on the fence on the aces and boxcars as to whether they offset each other or not.
     
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  9. NokTang, May 13, 2018

    NokTang

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    Where can we buy biased dice which look somewhat like the type used in most casinos? Thanks.
     
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  10. The Midnight Skulker, May 13, 2018

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I'm thinking the field becomes player positive because of the better than even payouts on [1][1] and [6][6].

    The field becomes a (virtually) no advantage bet when the probability of a [1] or a [6] is 0.177124 and the probability of the other faces drops to 0.161438. (Unbiased probability is 0.166666... for all faces.) At this bias the probabilities of all possible totals are
    Code:
    (2)  0.031372911376
    (3)  0.057189088624
    (4)  0.083251316468
    (5)  0.109313544312
    (6)  0.135375772156
    (7)  0.166994734128
    (8)  0.135375772156
    (9)  0.109313544312
    (10) 0.083251316468
    (11) 0.057189088624
    (12) 0.031372911376
    Surprising to me: Dugan's probability does not increase by that much. I will leave further analysis to those interested in further analysis while offering to e-mail my spreadsheet to any who PM me their e-address.
     
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  11. von duck, May 13, 2018

    von duck

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    In most any casino gift shop. :)
     
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    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  12. DeMango, May 13, 2018

    DeMango

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    All this strategy whets my appetite to find a casino with these dice! Where the fuck is Harley when we need him?? OP, where is this casino??
     
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  13. eagleeye2, May 13, 2018

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    3iron,

    It's not Just Indian Casino's that are employing ""BIASED DICE"", but much of Las Vegas & others also!

    Recently, I was in Las Vegas & on ""Counting Down Casino Craps Tables"", I found 3 of 4 to be using ""Biased Dice"", all were Biased to the 6 & 1.

    As I have stated previously, right here on this thread, ""Beware of Dark Red Casino Dice"". Incidentally, every Casino that I Found to be employing ""Biased Dice"", in Las Vegas, was doing so with "Dark Red Dice"!

    No, I did not play on Tables that I established were using ""Biased Dice"" & Yes, I did WIN, @ CRAPS, for the trip!

    Now for those interested in the eagleeye2, COUNT TECHNIQUE, read on:
    For starters, TWO dice make up the # shot, when playing CRAPS, which many here attempt to ignore.

    One must ask, "Why Complicate analysis by dealing with the SUM of combinations of #'s, on TWO DICE, that add to 7, like 7uwin; LIES about me doing!

    Here's the mathematical way to rapidly detect Biased Dice in Play, in an actual Casino!

    1) Reduce things to the simplest mode.

    You can accomplish this by ignoring the SUM of # Combinations adding to 7's & focusing on the individual #'s. As 6~1 Bias has been the most prevalent Bias to date (a shift to 4~3 Bias appears to protect the Casino more) I will focus on it, in the following example, but any other BIAS uses the same LOGIC presented below!

    Now, any # appears on a FAIR Die EXACTLY 1 in 6 throws, two dice in PLAY, any # appears on a set of FAIR Dice 1 in 3 throws & that is the KEY!

    You simply observe (No need to log on paper) the total # of 1's & 6's (on both dice) Vs # of throws. I mentally note this as follows ~ # Low # & # High # Vs # of rolls by a player. Noting that each player chooses from 5 DICE, all of which may not be Biased, (I typically feel that a 3 Biased Vs 2 Fair dice are employed), & therefore with every NEW Shooter, you must start any count over, due to dice change.

    For a single shooter & the same Dice, This could hypothetically proceed as follows:
    NOTE: Layout is ~ # 1'S ~ # 6'S ~ # Throws, (before that 7) separated by ( ,'s) as below:

    1, 0, 1
    1, 0, 2
    2, 0, 3
    3, 1, 4
    3, 1, 5
    3, 2, 6
    4, 2, 7
    5, 3, 8
    5, 3, 9 ~ 7 Out Throw

    Now, what would we have here?

    Well, we observed 5 1's in 9 throws of the Dice, when FAIR dice would have produced around 3 1's. The 5 1's observed, should have taken about 5 * 3 or 15 rolls of the dice, not 9, & we likely have BIASED DICE in play.

    In the above example, we got 3 ~ 6's on 9 throws, not out of the ordinanry.

    Prognosis, Highly Likely that 1~6 Biased Dice are in Play, with the above!

    Should your Total Count of both #;s approach the Magic # of 3 Times the # of rolls, the Dice in Play are likely Fair for that combination adding to ( 7).

    The exact same technique can be used for; 3~4 & 2~5 Biased dice also.

    One key to firmly establishing Dice Conditions, is the length of the roll. When you see numerous short rolls, you have little confidence in the Count, (although numerous short rolls could be a sign of a COLD Table, or worse) as the Stick Man passes out 5 dice to each new shooter & you do not know the composition of those 5 Dice, as to Biased or Balanced.

    When you get 8 or more rolls, (with the same Dice), the Count begins to become meaningful. Add several decent rolls & your Biased Dice, or Fair Dice decision should be easy.

    When generating your Counts, it's best to make a note of the Dice Combination that produced the 7-Out for each shooter. Should you see say three out of four 7-Outs as 3-4, rather than the usual 6-1, it's advisable to begin a Count of 3's & 4's Vs # of Rolls, as a (3) ~ (4) Bias may be the case.

    I have stated that the Craps Player that does ""NOT COUNT DOWN"" the dice in a Casino, before Investing his hard earned $$$ @ Craps is not concerned about their Money!

    eagleeye2
     
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    Last edited: May 13, 2018
  14. von duck, May 13, 2018

    von duck

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    :cool: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............................
     
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  15. eagleeye2, May 13, 2018

    eagleeye2

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    von duck,

    You quit playing CRAPS?

    eagleeye2
     
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  16. NokTang, May 13, 2018

    NokTang

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    I'm serious about the inquiry. I've only seen loaded dice of the backgammon type, you know, the round edge solid white with black pips etc.. I've never actually seen/held/thrown typical casino dice, the clear red/other colors, 3/4" type which were either loaded or shaved. I have suspected magnets on a cruise to nowhere which of course would also include the pips being some sort of metal. Any serious replies much appreciated. I hope to change them into a real casino game, make my money, change them out, cash out, immediately leave said country. Humm...Could it be Australia, Philippines, or Singapore or the Dominican Republic or Aruba? Yap.
     
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  17. von duck, May 14, 2018

    von duck

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    This statement is so ridiculous, and so conveniently timed, that it pretty much confirms what I already suspected. There is no way to know how a set of dice might be made to be biased, who knows what is possible. "Where can I get biased dice"? Get the the hell out! :confused: He wants to introduce them into a game? Give me a break, whoever you really are. :cool:
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  18. Mssthis1, May 14, 2018

    Mssthis1

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    So, If a guy tosses 4 hard 4's, 4 hard 10's and then a 5/2 seven out you won't play because it's obviously biased dice?
     
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  19. NokTang, May 14, 2018

    NokTang

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    What's going on here? I'm asking an intelligent question is all it is. I said I'd never seen/held/tossed biased casino style dice. I asked where I could get some and why I want to know. Is it really so outlandish you have to enter into a hysterical rant about it? The discussion is in fact about biased dice ka? Thanks.
     
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  20. von duck, May 14, 2018

    von duck

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    It's not a hysterical rant. The premise of your post is ridiculous, and intentionally so. And I know who you are. :cool: I ask all of you members, who is the only poster that could come up with this dumb shit, "where can I buy biased dice, I want to introduce them into a real casino craps game". That's right "THE DUMBASS". You know who it is. :)
     
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    Last edited: May 14, 2018