cashing out?

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by lucky4688, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. lucky4688, Feb 12, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    Can anyone please confirm or deny these facts.

    It is in relation to having to fill out documentation when cashing out. I’ve heard all kinds of different answers and im still unsure of what the truth is. It may vary from casino to casino or state to state. But here is what i have been told.

    Any slot machine win or jackpot of $1200 or more requires tax forms to be filled out.

    Also, I was told for table games, any bet that is won that pays 300 to 1 or more requires a tax form.

    Also, any cash out of $10, 000 or more requires a CTR (cash transaction reciept) for to be filled out, but is not taxable.

    So for example, i could win 9, 000 at the table games and cash in at the cashier and still not have to fill out any forms. Because the 9,000 was won over time and is not a jackpot.

    But if i hit the six number fire, than i have to fill out tax forms on the winnings for that fire bet.

    Any help would be awesome, i’ve been unsure of this answer for a long time, and would like to know the truth. Thanks
     
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  2. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 12, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I'm going to use Usenet quoting format since I will be responding to your statements individually.

    Can anyone please confirm or deny these facts.

    ... here is what i have been told.

    Any slot machine win or jackpot of $1200 or more requires tax forms to be filled out.


    True. The form is called a W-2G.

    Also, I was told for table games, any bet that is won that pays 300 to 1 or more requires a tax form.

    True, but the winnings must be $600 or more. It's also a W-2G. See http://www.taxslayer.com/support/article.php?id=631

    Also, any cash out of $10, 000 or more requires a CTR (cash transaction reciept) for to be filled out, but is not taxable.

    I believe this applies to buyins also if cash is used. By the way, CTR stands for Cash Transaction Report.

    So for example, i could win 9, 000 at the table games and cash in at the cashier and still not have to fill out any forms. Because the 9,000 was won over time and is not a jackpot.

    True, but the casino will probably make out a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) without telling you. See the section titled FinCEN Form 102a SAR- Casinos and Card Clubs Instructions at http://www.fincen.gov/forms/files/fin102_sar-c.pdf

    But if i hit the six number fire, than i have to fill out tax forms on the winnings for that fire bet.

    I believe so since the pay table I saw was 1000:1. You would get a W-2G.
     
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  3. lucky4688, Feb 12, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    midnight,

    Thanks for the post. I guess i had mostly correct information. Thanks for the links. I'll definately check that out.

    Yeah you are right. I forgot about that 10, 000 rule. My friend last year at Caesars was actually cut off at the table because he reached 10,000 dollars in buys in one day. I guess its a money laundering issue at that point.

    Once again thanks
     
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  4. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 13, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    That is what I have been told. I understand the 10k rule applies to any business, not just gambling establishments.
     
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  5. lucky4688, Feb 13, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    midnight,

    what happens then, if a high roller buys in for 10, 000 right away. I know they aren't gonna turn him away. Does it only apply to consistent small buy ins only. If thats the case i don't understand how they can be bias toward one person and not another? Thats interesting, what do you think?
     
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  6. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 14, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    High rollers typically establish an account with the casino(s) and take markers against that account. The CTR 10k threshold applies to cash only, not total buyins.

    I don't know what the scoop is on your friend. Was he buying in with cash? Had he (or a significant other, or some other interested party) established a limit as a way to enforce quitting when things went south? Perhaps the casino itself, or the jurisdiction it is in, has a daily limit. (Last I heard Missouri limits buyins to $500/cruise, another "protect us from ourselves" ploy used to get gambling legalized there.)

    A CTR is just a report sent to the feds. To my knowledge there is no law per se that limits cash transactions to $10k.
     
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  7. ChumpChange, Feb 14, 2010

    ChumpChange

    ChumpChange Member

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    I've heard CTR's were being STARTED on people who buy-in or cash-out $3K, since 4 buy-ins at $3K each would equal $12K, so the cashiers' cage accumulates the data during their 24 hour day. If I was a higher roller of the cash kind, I'd buy-in with $20K-$25K and make sure I cashed out with at least $10K, (if not $40K or $50K), so the loss of $10K-$15K can be documented for tax purposes.
     
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  8. lucky4688, Feb 14, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    midnight,

    yeah i truthfully wasn't standing next to him to hear all the details. But he walked up to me and said he was cut off because of the 10,000 dollar rule. Yeah he was using cash. His total buy-ins added up to 10, 000 dollars, so they cut him off i guess. Doesn't necessarily mean he lost 10,000, but just totaled 10,000 in buy ins. Thats the story i got....I'll probably never buy in for 10,000 dollars so i won't have to worry about it.
     
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  9. lucky4688, Feb 14, 2010

    lucky4688

    lucky4688 Member

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    ChumpChange,

    Does losing money matter when talking about tax documentation? I wouldn't imagine so....
     
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  10. The Midnight Skulker, Feb 16, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    It does if one has documented wins the casino sent to the IRS. Without documented losses to offset (or cancel) those wins one would have to pay taxes on the total amount.
     
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  11. basicstrategy777, Jul 25, 2010

    basicstrategy777

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    exceeds 10,000.

    777
     
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  12. wheatman, Nov 8, 2010

    wheatman

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    I never let the casino know I'm cashing out more than $10,000 in 1 day. The ways I do this is are I never cash out more than $10,000 at 1 time. I also figure out at each casino what amount of chips will the casino ask for your players card. It seems like they are all different but an average casino will ask for your players card if you cash out $3000 or more chips at 1 time. So say for example, I have $25,000 chips to cash in 1 day. I will go to the window 6 times for $2500 where they won't ask for my identification and 1 time for $10,000 where they will ask for identification. Also, the times I'm cashing out for $2500, I spread out the times I cash in and I try to go to different tellers so nobody notices all of my cash ins or if I have a friend or my wife with me, I get them to cash out some of my chips. What I've found over the years is the casinos don't go out of their way to catch somebody cashing in over $10,000 in 1 day.
     
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  13. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 10, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I suspect you may not be as clever as you think you are being. While it takes ten grand to trigger a CTR, a casino is also required to file Suspicious Activity Rreports (SARCs, see http://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/pdf/casinosarguidancefinal1203.pdf) when it "knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect: ..." a transaction (e.g. cashing in) "is designed to evade the reporting or recordkeeping requirements of the BSA (structuring) ... ." ("BSA" = Bank Secrecy Act) I have heard that $3000 is a common trigger point for a SARC, but it is not one written on tablets, and the casino does not have to notify the suspect that the casino is filing such a report.
    Perhaps, but where I play, if my cash-in includes more than just a few black chips I get asked what I played, and the cage then calls the pit to verify that what I am cashing in matches what I should be cashing in. Does that not happen where you play?
     
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  14. wheatman, Nov 18, 2010

    wheatman

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    Yes, that has happened many times to me where the cage verifies with the pit, the chips you are cashing out but not for just a few black chips.
     
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  15. Sancho Panza, Nov 18, 2010

    Sancho Panza

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    And what happens if it doesn't? Not that you would do anything suspicious, of course. :)))
     
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  16. The Midnight Skulker, Nov 19, 2010

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I have chosen not to find out. :cheese:
     
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  17. basicstrategy777, Mar 27, 2011

    basicstrategy777

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    Craps and blackjack are amoung table games where no one knows what you won or lost and no one will ask.

    777
     
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  18. Greatest 7 Shooter in the World, Aug 22, 2011

    Greatest 7 Shooter in the World

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    After reading this thread I can tell you right now I have at least 1 SAR from the Borgata in Feb of this year. Borgata is the only place I have a players card and this just
    proves my suspicion all along that they use the card to track every dollar.

    I have also seen on several occasions the bit boss counting my chips in my rack. Fuck him new rules. I am palming 500 chips into my pocket when other players are shooting. Total BS man I am so pissed right now.


    So basically a player like myself who walks in to a casino and wins 12k and cashes in 6k at the window and 6k the following day still gets fucked by the SAR form. I think I might start booking flights to Freeport BH. I wish I knew this before I just paid for a trip to Vegas for a week.
     
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  19. Hardeight, Aug 27, 2011

    Hardeight

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    Thats why I tell these people here DONT USE A PLAYERS CARD.THERES NO REASON WHY THEY NEED YOUR INFO BUT TO CHEAT YOU OUT OF YOUR MONEY
     
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  20. $nakeEye$, Aug 28, 2011

    $nakeEye$

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    My contention is that they are not " cheating you out of your money " - OTOH they are tracking your wins/losses dollar amounts -

    If you are playing for comps - then you should by all means go with the program - and let/allow them to rate/follow your action -

    However- if you are not concerned about getting " rated " - then FUCK them - you are Mr/Mrs Anonomyous - a cash player -

    Take their money and run - !
     
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