DI COURSES - SNAKE OIL SALESMEN PERSONIFIED

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Wrongway, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Wrongway, Oct 31, 2019

    Wrongway

    Wrongway Member

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    If some people are motivated to throw their money away enrolling in DI courses I pity you. IMHO you’d be far better off referring to sites such as wizardofodds.com or nextshooter.com to get a full understanding of house edges inherent on EVERY bet. The sooner you accept the fact that being able to influence the dice is fanciful the sooner you can work out a strategy to try and beat the house despite the odds being against you.
     
    #1
  2. twodicebilly, Nov 1, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Wrongway




    I agree that for you I would never ever take a craps class, I would never...ever learn A shot
    and above all do not learn anything about what dice do...then you are on your way to the
    big time.

    TDB
     
    #2
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  3. DeMango, Nov 1, 2019

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    For those who ignore the laws of physics and expect those laws to be suspended on the craps table, got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya!
     
    #3
  4. KokomoJoe4, Nov 1, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    I've brought up the seeming impossibility of controlling dice several times over the years.

    Before attempting to tackle the issue, let's try to agree at the start what dice control/dice influencing is. We do not want to introduce hypothetical levels of "skill" into this endeavor.

    Frank Scoblete states that DC and DI are the same thing. I agree. This amounts to, over the l o n g haul, being ahead of the statistics of the game.

    Can this be done? Possibly, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    Here's the thing that annoys me the most about the concept of DI

    When we are young and in school, at some point in grade school they introduce the concept of probability. They start with the flip of a coin, and tell us that the odds are even, heads and tails have equal probability.

    If you flip 10 times, you expect to see 5 of each, but this is not a law of nature, it doesn't have to happen. It is expected to happen. The more tosses made, the more likely we are to see equal or nearly equal numbers of heads and tails.

    Once we graduate from the coin, they take us to the dice. 36 equally likely outcomes distributed unequally between 11 different numbers. We expect to see one 2 and six 7's in 36 rolls, but again, because this is not a law of nature, we will see variability.

    What is important about both the flip of a coin and the rolling of two dice is that each process is random. We have no control over the outcome.

    Hello! Have Frank, Dom and MP forgotten that these processes are, by definition, random processes?

    The fact that these knuckleheads get people to give them money to learn how to better shoot dice astounds me.
     
    #4
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  5. twodicebilly, Nov 1, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko


    And why you paid Linaway for his material baffles me.....what good does it do you to
    read that material which tells you what happened.....when thinking like you and Demango and
    TDV that there is nothing you can do about ..do you.

    I dont understand what you guys have been doing when everything I have learned the past
    12 years tells me something different all together.

    Why would Linaway sell you anything or work with you when you get on here and cut down
    everything he has done???



    TDB
     
    #5
  6. KokomoJoe4, Nov 1, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    I paid Linaway because I recognized when first listening to him that he KNOWS THE DICE about as well as they can be known, and I wanted the details of his stuff.

    He and I get along splendidly. He knows that I believe DI is bullshit and he believes the same.

    Knowing his stuff as you and I do, we know that Group outcome, although still not under our control, is what should be strived for.

    Linaway and I see this the same way - the set you start in is about all there is that has an effect on outcome. This does NOT mean that if you make a certain set, you are always going to see the same result. It means simply what it says, starting set affects outcome.

    Linaway is a little more accepting than I that a person can improve his shooting. I seeing tossing as completely random, and I say this in spite of the fact that my results when shooting are definitely better on average now than before learning dice speak.

    It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I could never be convinced that dice outcomes can be controlled/influenced, call it what you will.
     
    #6
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  7. twodicebilly, Nov 1, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Koko

    You are a good forum to believe as you do that is for sure.

    YOU dont have to believe in dice control to understand that a shot that is similar
    to others you throw, will be more accepting of set changes.....I dont believe in dice
    control either...….

    TDB
     
    #7
  8. DeMango, Nov 1, 2019

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Gotta jump all over a bunch of chi square results before you declare di impossible. Not only do you all ignore the physics, then you ignore the math. SMH.
     
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  9. Liman

    Liman Member

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    it doesn't matter what I believe or anyone else believes on DI....

    if someone wants to pursue something and use their own money, I couldn't care less.

    coming here to preach how good they are and how they are overcoming something that seems impossible, unless they can walk me up to a table and show me, they are just a bunch of hot air with nothing to back their word.

    Ive listened to (read) enough assholes from here.
     
    #9
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  10. lone irish digit, Nov 1, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney

    For all personages on forum, the LID has new line of DI products which includes "DI Roadkill Snake Oil" at most amazing price of just $378 for most biggest 6 ounce bottle. The genuine snake oil is used by world class dices controllers to lubricate and soften their highly skilled fingers to get a consistent and soft release of the dices. Eustace also tells me the genuine DI Snake Oil works great for other purposes too...
     
    #10
  11. twodicebilly, Nov 1, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Liman

    me included, they include TDV, Demango and you......the reason I say is two fold
    first it is true and second.....it is true.

    You confuse information with a demand of belief..no one has ever demanded
    anyone accept anything other than the right to post an opinion.

    Case in point...Koko....now he and I do not appear to believe the same things,
    but in his decision to differ, he did not call anyone a liar, he did not call anyone
    stupid, he did not say that anyone that disagreed with him cant count or did
    not do anything a monkey could not do, he did not demand anyone prove
    anything to him. I dont understand how he came to his point of view, however
    he appears to be a gentleman and came to that point of view honestly as I camr
    to mine honestly.

    TDB
     
    #11
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  12. random_roller, Nov 1, 2019

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    WyleECoyote Gravity Lessons.jpg
     
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  13. Wrongway, Nov 1, 2019

    Wrongway

    Wrongway Member

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    Great to read people’s thoughts and views. It highlights how we are all different and entitled to our own opinions. That’s the beauty of craps the way it offers such a variety of bets and enables players to search for successful strategies. Chalk and cheese comparing it to Baccarat which is as boring as bat shit (nice low house edge however lol).
    Being a dirty don’t player (god forbid it in this forum) I take my hat off to a player who believes he has some sort of dice control. If a shooter hits me three times I wave the white flag and genuinely hope he has a long hand. Saw a guy at GSR Reno shoot for over an hour on my last visit. Many happy players and full racks by the time he finished.
     
    #13
  14. twodicebilly, Nov 1, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    wrongway

    craps is the best game ever, it includes al aspects of life I guess and all kinds of people.
    You can see in this forum, there is a division between what is thought possible in the game,
    and I surely am on the outside of most of these folks.....

    I think the game is random, but not 100% so and that even though it is random as linaway
    says, there is some order in what is happening, you just have to find it. Look at your post
    above and that guy in Reno.....for that hour he was shooting there was some order, it was not
    any longer a typical random game where there is a 7 every 6 rolls. I think that when you
    have practiced a shot for many years, there is some order in your shot, it is not the same every
    time you get to the table, so may have to change the set you used last, but many times
    you can find that order and change the random nature of the outcomes.

    Unbalanced dice can produce a sort of order, your shot can produce it, it can just happen, but
    to win more than the math of the game suggests you can, you have to find something that is happening
    to bet on which is not 100% random.

    It is a great game, look for the potential in it.

    TDB
     
    #14
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  15. TDVegas, Nov 2, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Either craps is random....or it isn't. Saying "at most times it is random and other small percentage times not"....means you believe the game is not random.

    You can't be a little bit pregnant. A little bit pregnant....is pregnant. A little bit not random....is a non random game.

    If someone feels their results slighty skew random expectation...whether that is one extra 6 over 72 rolls...or an elevated SRR, you believe the game is not random. Whether .05% better, 1% or enough to change -1.41% to a positive...you believe the game is not random.
     
    #15
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  16. von duck, Nov 2, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Or, you could "jump all over" the person that compiled the chi square, data. :)
     
    #16
  17. von duck, Nov 2, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    OK, you win, craps is not random, especially the bubble. :cool:
     
    #17
  18. Mssthis1, Nov 2, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    The biggest misunderstanding in craps is what 36 different possible results does to a random distribution. You need a sample size in the many 10's of thousands to differentiate normal variance from something that isn't.

    It's also the draw of the game, in a small sample of a few hundred rolls or less anything can happen which gives you the opportunity to win.

    I agree with Wrongway. The more you play the more important the house edge and bankroll become. If you play infrequently, go for it, bet as you wish. You may get lucky and win a boatload. If you don't win, you probably won't end up living in your car.
    If you play a lot like some people do, you had better be making low HA bets, and have bankroll to survive the ups and downs or you will end up living in your car.
     
    #18
  19. TDVegas, Nov 2, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    This is probably where I fall in line. If one plays infrequently and wants to push the envelope with ATS, bonus or other high edge bets or strategies....go for it. You may strike gold. You might also get your ass kicked...but this is gambling.

    The agreements or disagreements of what works better or not is something that will be argued about for an eternity here. People just have to accept that not everyone will agree with everyone else's strategy. Nor will there ever be united thought on DI.
     
    #19
  20. von duck, Nov 2, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    So if I roll the dice say 300 times, and get all twelves, you're saying that this could be just normal variance? :confused: Let me see now, 36X36X36X36X36............................I'm already at 60 million to one, so I'm thinking this wouldn't be "normal" deviation. With 294 more "Xs 36s" to go, I'm thinking we have a very suspicious anomaly. There is no doubt that one will experience variance, when playing craps, the question IS, what is the source of the variance? Much can be hidden, under the cape of "variance", especially on the bubble. :cool:
     
    #20
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