Dice Control let's take a break from it!

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by superrick, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. superrick, Jan 6, 2017

    superrick

    superrick Member

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    Dice Control

    Now, I'm going to take the easy way out of this thread and let all of you argue over it. But there are a few things that TDVegas should pay attention too. There are somethings in the article that we have been saying all along.
    When it comes right down to the end of the article it should come as no surprise that they are saying you should forget about it.

    Look players have the dice taking away from them because they are on a lucky roll and they start in with you have to hit the back wall even when you are!

    http://www.gamblingwithanedge.com/dice-contro

    They want to stop the roll anyway they can and saying that one die didn't hit the back wall is one way of doing it!
    The so-called DI's have set themselves up for that kind of treatment because of all of the fiction that is written and all of their braggings they do like everybody's friend on all of the DI boards Dave. Oh, that's right someone said he is no longer on Heavy's board. Could it have been his big mouth that got him kick off of that board?

    These guys like Dave, will never give up, they love to tell everybody about the tables they say they can beat then wonder why the casino
    changed the tables and made them so nobody would want to play on them.

    You have to give credit where credit is due after all you had the great fiction writer the madprofessor writing some of the best fiction out there on playing craps. He led his followers right down the yellow brick road. They all believed everything that he wrote when good old common sense would have shown them it was nothing but fiction!

    Hell, even the casinos believed what these fiction writers were writing they came up with counter measures to try to stop what they thought was a threat to their bottom line. When all they had to do was film the dice in slow-motion to see what really happened when the dice hit the tables!

    The DI thing has been kicked around for years now and it has never been proven to work and guess what guys it never will be proven!

    As I always say the best-looking shot I ever made turned out to be a seven out!

    So, I hoped that you all read the article and can get the key points out of it! Please post anything you got out of it!
     
    #1
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  2. $nakeEye$, Jan 7, 2017

    $nakeEye$

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    :)
     
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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
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  3. BigBen, Jan 7, 2017

    BigBen

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  4. Edward-ky, Jan 7, 2017

    Edward-ky

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    Blah blah blah.
     
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  5. driglaz, Jan 7, 2017

    driglaz

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    craps has a physical element - tossing the dice.

    no other table game in the casino has a physical element.

    the other thing you need to understand, for many DI is about how to change the oidds from random to "other than random".

    factually, many have displayed the ability to change the odds to "other than random"

    but to change the odds to "other than random" involves a extremely high skill level (not axis movement - for the video naysayers )

    few will obtain this skill
     
    #5
  6. TDVegas, Jan 7, 2017

    TDVegas

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    If players want to try to influence the dice results...go for it. If it adds to their desire to play...great. It does no harm. I have practical disagreements about the viability but that shouldn't be a consideration for anyone who feels DI is a part of their game.

    On the proving front?....likely never happen. It's always going to be a "I think I can"....while others say "I doubt it".

    If with a consistent toss and a dice set...you feel you have skewed random---stick with it. I'm not sure how one can differentiate that from variance with any degree of certainty....but as Costanza told Jerry...."it's not a lie if you believe it".

    Dice influence will continue to be contentious subject.....and I don't think much can be done on the proving front. There could be a controlled study and could be cursory tests....but IMO this will continue to be listed under the maybe, maybe not, yes, no, can, can't "talk" that is a part of this forum.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  7. Twelve4s, Jan 7, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    Did you really post something that Rick likes? Or am I seeing things again?
     
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  8. tabletop123, Jan 7, 2017

    tabletop123

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    Factually, many have NOT displayed the ability to change the odds to "Other than Random"!
     
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  9. superrick, Jan 7, 2017

    superrick

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    Look, guys I've put out about 200 slow-motion videos that were all made by the so-called DI'S showing off their shooting and when they were slowed down they showed the dice bouncing all over the place.

    The funny thing about those videos was you had the great fiction writer MP telling them how great they were doing and let's not forget the guys that were running the DI schools telling them what they wanted to hear!

    Some of the DI boards are now dead, the great fiction writer mp is nowhere to be found, and Dave has nowhere to post his stupid threads anymore, so everyone on this board is stuck with him trying to kiss TDVegas ass, or anybody else he can suck up to. We are all waiting on his next video so I can slow it down and show everybody what Mr 0 is doing when he is shooting!

    What these so-called DI'S managed to do was to get the casinos to treat anyone that sets the dice differently with all of the fiction they were writing. After all, none of them wanted to look like they couldn't Shoot!

    Now here comes the really funny part you have guys telling others that the only way you can win at craps over a period of time is by cheating or by being a so-called DI.
    These same guys will tell you that there are no DI'S.

    I don't see why they play craps or anything else in the casinos because they are so negative.
    They won't do anything to improve their game and want everyone to never to try to improve the way they play craps.

    Which was quite evident when we did the ACA, they went on the attack trying to put a stop to it. When it was all over with everyone that went to the tables with us made money.

    Yes, the DI thing is a joke, but that doesn't stop guys from winning if they understand how to bet the game and know when to walk right back out the doors if they don't like what they are seeing at the tables.

    There have always been enough guys that can win at craps and it had nothing to do with them shooting. There were winners before the coined the words Dice controller, Back then there were no so-called random rollers the only thing you had back then we're just shooter's.

    So, if you think that you are one of the gifted one's and you can do what others think is impossible, why are you pounding or your chest telling everyone that you can out shoot everyone else. After all, the best-looking shot I ever made turned out to be a seven out!

    Don't fall into Mr 0 trap thinking your skipping stone shot is going to make you $75 every time you hit the casinos three times a year!

    The funniest thing about Mr 0 is that now that he can't post on any of the DI boards he is kissing TDVegas ass!
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017

  10. Liman

    Liman Member

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    rick, youre an intelligent poster with a lot to offer the craps community.
    the constant flame wars or belittling of other posters whether here or other boards, should be beneath you by now.
    I don't think someone like TD(I don't know the MP poster) has lied here, just defends his opinions and doesn't back down.
    And dave has his own style of posting, what value others find in some posts doesn't matter, no one has to read them.
    me posting how much I win or lose at a bubble might hold zero interest for many posters, but at least no one has called me names for posting it.
     
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  11. TDVegas, Jan 7, 2017

    TDVegas

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    From a pure mathematical viewpoint....there are 3 ways to overcome house edge on craps to "win at craps"

    Dice influence
    Cheat
    Read bias dice

    That is simply fact. There is no ambiguity.

    Now...to "win at craps"---there are 4 ways, methods.

    Dice influence
    Cheat
    Read bias dice
    Luck/variance

    That is also simply fact. There is no ambiguity.

    Anything else suggested to "win at craps" simply falls under gambler fallacy type illogic thinking. (Reading a table, past results influence future outcomes, if numbers aren't showing it means they have to...if numbers are showing it means they have to stop showing in the future). As Goatcabin would offer "voodoo bullshit". People can believe in this stuff if they like---but there is no credible basis for the claim. I'm not suggesting don't act on hunches...it's just that there is really no basis beyond a guess.

    There is no...I repeat there is no betting strategy that overcomes house edge. Without the aforementioned (DI, bias dice, cheat)....you need luck---variance of dice rolls to "win at craps". Once that is accepted, then we can delve into simulation studies on probabilities/chances.

    I'm not exactly sure why this needs to be repeated...but whatever. If someone has something that's offers even a modicum of credibility on "how to beat craps" beyond what I offered...talk. I'm listening. Just don't have me echoing Goatcabin.

    "Beating craps" and "winning at craps" are two different subjects with different parameters. IMO, the former is not viable...the latter has possibilities--but those are slim.

    You keep saying "you have to see what's happening and learn to bet from that"....
    What has happened is over. Done. Once those dice are picked up....start new.
    There is nothing to be gleaned from past roll data while you are at the table...beyond voodoo, gambler fallacy thinking.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
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  12. superrick, Jan 7, 2017

    superrick

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    Liman, that is because there are guys on this board that has been to the bubble craps machine with you and saw how you play the game and I was one of them. So you got a free pass from TDVegas, who is the one that starts all of the BS on this board by posting in his own little sly way of posting and trying to make like everybody that doesn't agree with him is a liar!

    Let's get down to a few facts TDVegas has been the one that has started the name calling by posting lies like the thing with Harley's house. Or writing that Snakeye's was a loser for moving into where he is now living when in fact TDVegas doesn't know where he lives.

    No, he has a general area and that's about it. So making like Snakeyes is a loser because he moved somewhere has nothing to do with his ability to win at craps!

    Then you have James Hall who TDVegas in his sly way started calling him a liar telling everybody that James would have to come to him and prove that he could do what he was writing about and guess what everybody else had to pile on! I went over to see James after one of the guys stopped there before coming to the ACA. James picked the guy up at the airport and took him to his table to show him what he and the other guys did.

    When that guy got to Vegas he couldn't say enough good things about James and what they showed him! Then you have the fact that all of the guys like TDVegas all say if you could do it you should be a millionaire and you wouldn't be on this board.

    They want everybody to take whatever stupid test they can come up with and what would it prove if they beat their stupid test.
    The only thing it would get the guys that think they are one of these so-called DI's is more hassles on the craps tables if they are getting lucky and they are on a roll.


    Most of the stuff is started by a guy that doesn't even play real craps when they have real tables all over the Vegas area. Where unlike you, you have none and would have to drive for hours to get to a casino where you could play real craps!

    I've said it before and I'll say it again you play a good game of craps because you are playing to win and not for the fun of sitting at a bubble craps machine for hours on end playing for a dollar!

    You can call me every name in the books I don't care I learned a long time ago that it will never hurt you. Sometimes that is the only way you can get someone's attention that is making like you are a liar!

    By the way, TDVegas I would take you down to Laughlin to see how any so-called DI is treated and to show you that there are casinos down there that do not let you set the dice!
     
    #12
  13. James Hall, Jan 7, 2017

    James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    craps is one of the few games , where you are allowed to handle the device . In roulette you are never allowed
    to spim the ball , in blackjack you never get to deal , in poker same thing
    only in craps are you allowed to handle the dice , you are allowed to choose the pair then throw them
     
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  14. TDVegas, Jan 7, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Lets see....we have three guys here right now. Guy 1 claims he can "beat craps" with a betting strategy and can "win at craps". Guy 2 claims to be an ace dice influencer to "beat the game". Guy 3 is a random roller who calls the game luck....

    Guy 1 is in here putting up useless threads and 600 word diatribes "I can win" rather than spending that time actually going out and doing.

    Guy 2 is in here and as anyone can see....rarely if ever actually plays craps and when he does, he uses monopoly money and practice tables...

    Guy 3...the random roller----where is he going right now? To the actual casino to GO DO rather than talk, talk, talk.

    Go figure. Who has credibility here?
     
    #14
  15. Onautopilot, Jan 7, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    The casinos have implemented all the necessary rules for insuring that they hold and keep their edge in all the games offered.

    At craps, they started with establishing maximums allowed that would "cut off" the Martingale players. Binion's once had a no maximum limit, but your limit was determined by your fist bet if you wanted to go big, thus eliminating the Martingaler's.

    They have always had rules in play to negate controlled throws, dice sliding, etc. In the air past the stick, and hit the back wall with both dice.

    If dice control was a valid concept, and wide spread, the casinos would have long ago taken further steps to insure their edge.....they haven't, other than claims of harassment, or banning by some Di claimants.

    If by chance, there are a few DI's that possess enough skill to change the expectation in their favor, they are few, and far between. Since the casino "hold" has increased slightly over the years on bank craps games, the casino is probably not too worried about a "few and far between" DI's that play red chips.......in the immortal words of Bob Stupak, casino owner, ...."Yea, we have advantage players, but they are kind of like ants at a picnic, they are a bit bothersome, but they don't eat much.".

    Proof of DI skills, you want proof........seek not the answer here my friends, for like may other things, the truth can not be found outside yourself.
     
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  16. tabletop123, Jan 7, 2017

    tabletop123

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    That is correct! You must prove to YOURSELF that you can influence the dice! Once that proof is acknowledged, you should remain EVER SO QUIET! Don't tell a soul, & definitely don't shout it out at the Mountain Tops!

    Influencing the dice is like finding a "glitch" in the system! Esoteric knowledge! Man will ALWAYS search endlessly to find that glitch to beat the game of craps!

    I will be the FIRST to tell you that I am ALWAYS searching! Once again, IF I FIND IT, you guys will NEVER hear about my newly invented tosses, childhood, or pool stories!

    That's right, Old Top will simply fade into oblivion! Until then.......please pardon all of my Drivel! Lol
     
    #16
  17. tabletop123, Jan 7, 2017

    tabletop123

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    I should have stated that you guys will NO LONGER have to listen to my stories! Lol
     
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  18. James Hall, Jan 7, 2017

    James Hall

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    I say you are looking for
    Guy #3 the lucky random roller / chunker who relys on luck and variance going to the casino to GO DO because he has lost his ass and needs to try to
    get back some of the many thousands of dollars he has lost over the years because he ain't got a clue how #1 or #2 are able to play so infrequently and win so much money

    I enjoyed playing the game
    just send my prize to Mesa or I will pick it up if Parker , Leon and I get to Vegas on Monday
     
    #18
  19. superrick, Jan 7, 2017

    superrick

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    To start TDVegas, how do you know what any of these players are doing? You will never see any of them on a real table because you only play bubble craps, isn't that right?

    James could be in a casino as I'm typing this out we already know where you are TDVegas because you're on your computer just like me. This past month gave me a lot of time sitting around or in bed with pneumonia. I didn't find that out until this past Monday when my Dr got back the X-rays of my lungs!

    Then I had to get my digestive system back in order because of all of the antibiotics I was taking. So I'm still not 100%!

    Let's face a fact and that is the DI thing will never be proven! If it could have been proven it would have been a long time ago! The only thing that the whole DI thing has done is to give players something to post about!

    Now are there ways that you can win playing craps, of course, there are but most players don't want to put any time into how they are playing craps!

    Now I have aways said the worst bet on a craps table is the pass line bet and all of the books say it's the best one you can make because of the low house edge! I never have a pass line bet unless I'm paying rent on the tables so I can shoot. Or worst yet I have to make a pass line bet so I can make a bonus bet! Think about what I just wrote, no casino is going to force you into making a good bet when you are making one of these bonus bets!

    Well, I found this video on some guy trying to sell his stuff on youtube, TDVegs, should watch it even though I don't go along with everything he is saying! But I do go along with not making a pass line bet unless you have the dice and playing hit run type of game! Now the funny thing about this guy is that he is also selling dice control but I'm not about to set and watch all of his videos to see what he is doing.

    If you don't have anything to do today you can watch his videos where he is trying to sell you on his stuff!

     
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  20. Dave G Ct, Jan 7, 2017

    Dave G Ct

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    Sorry SR you will not be viewing any new vids that I make.Yoy are not on the list !
     
    #20