Dice rolls not random?? Proof?? Oh-oh.

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by rkidalowski, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. rkidalowski, Jan 11, 2018

    rkidalowski

    rkidalowski Member

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    #1
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  2. KokomoJoe4, Jan 11, 2018

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    We saw this information a while back, where the "study" concludes that initial dice position is the most important factor.

    If you allow that dice do not stay on-axis, perhaps the "best" set is one heavy in sevens, since the objective when shooting is to avoid the seven once past come out.
     
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  3. rkidalowski, Jan 11, 2018

    rkidalowski

    rkidalowski Member

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    OK. Didn't notice date of news item, and that was long before I knew anything about dice
     
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  4. The Comeback Kid, Jan 11, 2018

    The Comeback Kid

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    The comments underneath the article are quite
    illuminating...
     
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  5. optimist415, Jan 11, 2018

    optimist415

    optimist415 Member

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    Yes. wish i could understand what was said in video clip..
     
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  6. The Comeback Kid, Jan 11, 2018

    The Comeback Kid

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    There is always resonance within us, with that which we observe. We see it, we vibrate it & the level of vibratory resonance often depends upon how much we care about it. If your dice are showing 3s (3v set), prior to the throw, there should be a propensity in the outcome somewhere for a 3. Duh!

    Thus the observer effect.
    But nothing happens in a vacuum.

    If we now put the rent money i.e. our own treasure at risk, in a bonafide casino environment, watch the whole study go screwy. Why? Because In the presence of fear, doubt, worry, it is possible for the observer/shooter to actually vibrationally push away the wanted outcome they seek, while attracting exactly the opposite; that which has them worried. There can only be 1 of 2 outcomes in any such transaction; wanted or unwanted & you can be assured that resistance will resist...every time.

    Thus, the elephant in the room; the common denominator in the equation, the thing we should all be looking at, is the countenance, the attitude, the alignment or misalignment of said observer/shooter. ...and I for one, would not want it any other way.

    tumblr_odjuznbMaa1rkiy8ro1_1280.jpg
     
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  7. von duck, Jan 11, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Ah, but what is the best set on the come out, Betting pass?
     
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  8. twodicebilly, Jan 13, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Von Duck

    Here is the thing, and there is no way to get around it, no two
    people are the same so no one set works the same for me or
    you.
    I start with a variation of the vertical 6 set, if I get an early
    seven a couple of times I do a quarter turn on one die and I
    am in crossed 6 set.

    Now I will get one predominant 7 (6/1) with the vertical
    6 and (5/2) with the crossed 6 set.
    So there is no question changing sets for me changes things, but
    that does not mean anything in terms of winning or losing.
    If you get a 7 every 5-6 rolls you better go play poker.
    If you want to have any affect on your play you have to either
    change the number of sevens you get, or get damn good at
    betting what ever it is you get.
    I would wager that any serious player on here that is honest
    would tell you if you watch a pretty good on axis shooter (GTC type) using the
    hard way set you see him or her have more sevens outs than
    most random players and you will see many more sevens which
    are 4/3/3/4. They have learned to shoot the dice so they look
    good, but it has either had no positive affect on the money in
    their rack and may even make them lose more.

    A player with a significant bank roll and one that does not fear losing
    in the short haul with do better than a dice setter that does not understand
    his shot and is playing with scared money over the long haul.

    If you actually think you can affect the dice enough to get more than the
    average amount of say 6, you have to also admit you can also at times hit
    more 7's.

    What happens to the dice is fun to talk about, but happens to your pocketbook
    is the real deal.

    Twodicebilly
     
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  9. von duck, Jan 13, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Why change your set, just change your bet. :) According to the article, your best top set, betting pass, would be 5/5, hard ten. But this guy never quantified anything. I would think a legitimate experiment result would include the actual numbers, not just a vague reference to non-randomness. :cool: I'm sure it was music to any aspiring DIs ears, but really, it was just a vague statement, nothing more.:)
     
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  10. tabletop123, Jan 13, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Billy, here is my position.....SNIPING! Even though it's pretty much non-existent, I think that it's the route to take. You might as well STRIVE for perfection, because most hands will be relatively short for the talented shooter.

    I am of the opinion that the better your shot becomes...the more UNWANTED sevens you will get, because your dice faces have a propensity to end up in the tossing plane.

    I always thought that Frank was full of shit when he said that the more skilled you become....the shorter your rolls, BUT the trade-off is that you have a tendency to repeat a number/s several times before the hand ending seven out.

    If you're numbers are all over the place....it's just harder to win, because there's no grouping of a number/s to give you an idea of what to bet on. You will be forced to bet Across, & we both know how THAT usually ends ( unless you're James Hall. Lol) Players don't understand that with the Across bet, you must CONSISTENTLY stay five bets ahead, or you're gonna have problems. ( Assuming that you are playing long sessions, ie 1-2 hours or more).

    Just my opinion.
     
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  11. twodicebilly, Jan 13, 2018

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    top

    I agree with this 100% ..".I am of the opinion that the better your shot becomes...the more UNWANTED sevens you will get, because your dice faces have a propensity to end up in the tossing plane."

    if your an on axis thrower and use the hard way set of 5/4 5/4 with 55 being a perfect outcome, the
    next perfect is 3/4 4/3......

    This does not make any sense to me, the better your shot looks the more you lose and if
    you good enough to win they kick you out.........hell of a deal.

    Like I have said many times....dice control is the best friend a casino ever had.

    That in no way means the casino cant be beaten, it just means the way you win more
    than likely wont work for me. There is no one way you write a winning system on this or any
    forum that everyone can use.

    Frank varied from GTC some in that he admitted the hard way set was not the answer for
    all GTC guys and further that placing a number of bets at one time was good. I doubt
    many actually understood some of the things Frank really said.

    twdicebilly
     
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  12. tabletop123, Jan 13, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Yep....a lot of people bash Frank for his "Captain" stories, but Frank knew what he was talking about. If memory serves me correctly, Frank rarely bets more than two numbers ( 6&8), but MOSTLY just the lone 6.

    Frank concluded that after 50 years of play....the number 6 brought home the bacon, ham, & the cheese.

    All of this bullshit about the Come Bet sucking?......what better way is there to "Tip Toe" into a hand WITHOUT getting your Ass all snared up?
    Betting is simply a matter of personal preference but the MATH doesn't lie!

    1.41 is < than 1.52, 4.00, & 6.67 whether you accept it or not!

    If someone wants to Place bet instead of Come Betting.....no problem!

    ALL bets win, & lose at one time or another. You don't know what the fuck is the better bet,( excluding the math) UNTIL,the session begins.....UNLESS you're a TALENTED sniper- type shooter.

    The math does state that the Pass/Come, Don't Pass/ Don't Come is the lowest house edge bet....However, the MATH does NOT guarantee winners JUST BECAUSE ya adhere to the MATH of the game.

    The lowest House edge bets COULD be the worst bets on the table, simply because of Variance.

    Those two bitches( the dice),are only loyal to one person ( The Casinos), UNLESS ( like I've said MANY times), you are a TRUE ( NOT delusional) SNIPER!
     
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  13. von duck, Jan 13, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I'm actually a delusional person, and I think that I'm not a "true sniper", does this mean that I AM a "true sniper".:confused: :)
     
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  14. von duck, Jan 13, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    I went through and read this thing again, and it's nothing but bull shit. One very interesting statement, was that the "scientist's" used high speed cameras to "illustrate" their findings? Not, to determine, but to illustrate, after the fact. This means, they made a determination, and then "cherry picked" the pictures that would "illustrate" their findings. They also said, that for all "practical" purposes, the result WAS random. Sorry DI guys, this link, has NO value in legitimizing DI, none at all. Only indicates, that it might not be impossible. We already knew THAT.
     
    #14
  15. DeMango, Jan 13, 2018

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Now you done it! The Mesa Henderson Axis of innumerates will be yelping with pain over this post!
     
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  16. von duck, Jan 13, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    They know what the math says, they seem to be indicating, that they do not give a shit, what the math says. They play by "feel" and that just might be better, than playing the numbers. Your posts indicate that you also, do not play by the numbers. Why not? :)
     
    #16
  17. tabletop123, Jan 13, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    No!
     
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  18. $nakeEye$, Jan 13, 2018

    $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Member

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    IS NOT THAT - THE - EXACT PREMISE of the OFF-AXIS Method / Technique -

    AND in ADDITION - THROW WHERE and HOW the On-Axis Method / Technique instructs you NOT TO !


    DeMango is STILL waiting with baited breath and sleep in his eyes - along with cobwebs on his brain -

    For the " VIDEO " version of the above -


    Apparently, HE has difficulty with the English language !


    Obviously, HE Can NOT distinguish the difference between airplanes and automobiles !


    $...eE..$
     
    #18
  19. von duck, Jan 14, 2018

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    DAMN ! :( Which way is Mesa?:)
     
    #19
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  20. tabletop123, Jan 14, 2018

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Go West young Man!
     
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