ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by eagleeye2, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. eagleeye2, Dec 9, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE

    I am starting a New Thread titled "ELEMENTARY METHOD TO ESTABLISH FAIR or BIASED DICE", to prevent B.S. like that TDV & others post here on the subject of ""Biased Dice use in Casino's""!

    Yes, I have published this several times before, but it simply gets buried.

    For those that want to LEARN, rather than accept current or past Casino Employee's B.S., as posted by the Casino Brain Trust, on this thread, read on!

    Typical LIE from 7uwin, TDV, etc. ""You claim to be able to detect Dice bias by logging rolls and determining that 7 is showing more than 1 in 6 rolls.

    I have NEVER posted, nor insinuated the above, as the LIAR 7uwin Posts!

    Here's What I have Stated:

    First: Be EXTREMELY CAREFULL of Very DARK RED DICE, as they have the highest likelyhood of being BIASED in favor of the Casino.

    Second: For starters, TWO dice make up the # shot, when playing CRAPS, which 7uwin attempts to ignore.

    One must ask, "Why Complicate analysis by dealing with the SUM of combinations of #'s, on TWO DICE, that add to 7, like 7uwin; LIES about me doing!

    Here's the mathematical way to rapidly detect Biased Dice in Play, in an actual Casino!

    1) Reduce things to the simplest mode.

    You can accomplish this by ignoring the SUM of # Combinations adding to 7's & focusing on the individual #'s. As 6~1 Bias has been the most prevalent Bias to date (a shift to 4~3 Bias appears to protect the Casino more) I will focus on it, but any other BIAS uses the same LOGIC presented below!

    Now, any # appears on a FAIR Die EXACTLY 1 in 6 throws, two dice in PLAY, any # appears on a set of FAIR Dice 1 in 3 throws & that is the KEY!

    You simply observe (No need to log on paper) the total # of 1's & 6's (on both dice) Vs # of throws. I mentally note this as follows ~ # Low # & # High # Vs # of rolls by a player. Noting that each player chooses from 5 DICE, all of which may not be Biased, (I typically feel that a 3 Biased Vs 2 Fair dice are employed), & therefore with every NEW Shooter, you must start any count over, due to dice change.

    For a single shooter & the same Dice, This could hypothetically proceed as follows:
    NOTE: Layout is ~ # 1'S ~ # 6'S ~ # Throws

    1, 0, 1
    1, 0, 2
    3, 0, 3
    3, 1, 4
    4, 1, 5
    4, 1, 6
    4, 1, 7
    5, 1, 8
    5, 1, 9

    Now, what would we have here?

    Well, we observed 5 1's in 9 throws of the Dice, when FAIR dice would have produced around 3 1's. The 5 1's observed, should have taken about 5 * 3 or 15 rolls of the dice, not 9.

    Prognosis, Highly Likely that 1~6 Biased Dice are in Play, with the above!

    Should your Total Count of any single # approach the Magic # of 3 Times the # of rolls, the Dice in Play are likely Fair for that #.

    The exact same technique can be used for; 3~4 & 2~5 Biased dice.

    One key to firmly establishing Dice Conditions, is the length of the roll. When you see numerous short rolls, you have little confidence in the Count, (although numerous short rolls are a sign of a COLD Table, or worse) as the Stick Man passes out 5 dice to each new shooter & you do not know the composition of those 5 Dice, as to Biased or Balanced.

    When you see 8 or more rolls, (with the same Dice), the Count begins to become meaningful. Add several decent rolls & your decision should be easy.

    When generating your Counts, it's best to make a note of the Dice Combination that produced the 7-Out for each shooter. Should you see say three out of four 7-Outs as 3-4, it's advisable to begin a Count of 3's & 4's Vs # of Rolls.

    eagleeye2
     
    #1
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
  2. lone irish digit, Dec 9, 2016

    lone irish digit

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    That methodology is somewhat similar to what me and the other two current members of the unbalanced bubble research team is currently doing. I would go into more detail but the team has agreed not to post this info on public forums or to assholes. Keep up the good work.
     
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  3. DeMango, Dec 10, 2016

    DeMango

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    It's been awhile since you posted this on Wizard of Vegas also. Rick just posted a zillion dice videos, so it's your turn.
     
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  4. driglaz, Dec 10, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    your whole argument is flawed.

    you even say "(I typically feel that a 3 Biased Vs 2 Fair dice are employed)"


    you go into the casino expecting and thinking there are only bias dice.

    your short term observations can be called "normal random outcomes" just because a series of 7's occurs in any sequence (6-1, 5-2, 4-3) and even if one of the occurrences is appearing at a higher frequency does NOT mean there are bias dice. The same pair could of dice just as easily produce the same number of occurrences and frequencies of any other dice outcome.

    With your logic, any time you see a series of repeat numbers, your playing with loaded dice. well let me tell this is flawed logic and thinking likely leading into your big losses.

    with your logic there is a double expectation to lose, the normal probability and odds of craps + the loaded dice. why would you even approach a casino craps table?
     
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  5. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    The whole idea that casinos are rigging games in their favor with bad dice in all likelihood stems from a bunch of people who cannot accept losing. "There HAS to be another reason why I'm losing".

    Yes, you're playing a negative expectation game.

    I win...my skills
    I lose...bad dice.

    There is no other option.

    From some very, very smart people...

    "Nobody has ever demonstrated that a slightly unbalanced die (not loaded, just a standard die with a center of mass slightly off-center) has a noticeable impact, or even ANY impact at all, on the face distributions over the useful life of that die."

    "Even if there were a known causality between a die having imbalance B and biased (non-uniform) face distribution D, nobody has demonstrated that all dice have imbalance B."

    "Unless the imbalance in all dice is the same, the aggregate face distribution results will average out and tend toward uniform at one in six for each face. The ONLY large scale data available (casino revenue statistics) shows consistent revenue results over a multi-year period."

    "Therefore, we can reject the theories that (a) unintentionally unbalanced dice in casinos has any impact on the overall game, and (b) casinos are systematically increasing their craps win by fraudulently using intentionally unbalanced dice."
     
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  6. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I'll wager that even if someone got a hold of unbalanced casino dice that they could not make any determination what the results will favor. After the fact data could easily be simple variance.

    Tell me before and you might be on to something. No one will tell you before. Hell, give them 500 rolls..record all the data.

    Now the test starts.
     
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  7. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    "I gotta play. I love the game and love to gamble"....
     
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  8. eagleeye2, Dec 10, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    driglaz,

    You OBVIOUSLY lack Reading Comprehension!

    Try taking Reading Comprehension # 101 @ your local Community College!

    Note: I said nothing about 7's, DUH!

    What ONE IS looking for is an increased Frequency of #'s that add to 7, shooting TWO DICE!

    You obviously don't Play Craps sufficiently to recognize that some Casinos, at some times, employ BIASED DICED!

    What I have provided above, is a Relatively Simple way for any Craps Player to establish, on the spot, if BIASED DICE are being employed on the Craps TABLE THEY ARE OBSERVING.

    With this knowledge, one can FIND & PLAY at Craps tables employing Fair, not BIASED DICE!

    As I have stated, those that will not invest 20 Minutes Time, to assure that Fair, not Biased Dice are being employed, prior to playing Craps is, in the case of Biased Dice Throwing their $$$ away.

    Note also, that I have warned against Dark Red Dice, which currently are most likely to be BIASED!

    eagleeye2
     
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  9. eagleeye2, Dec 10, 2016

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    TDV<

    That weed you SMOKE has damaged your BRAIN, DUH!!!
     
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  10. Craps Poopshoot, Dec 10, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    The same casinos that are offering 6/5 blackjack to the suckers and the no so bright players out there, are typically the same ones offering bad dice as well.

    Typically you can see it for yourself after observation of such dice on a table. Lots of craps rolls, outsides and heavy sevens (6-1 or 5-2 types). The dealers know the dice are shit and are often sullied and complacent to even want to deal the game, cause they will get few tips and stand there a lot as the table fill up with suckers, the suckers bust out, table is empty and they wait for more suckers to come. Its a train wreak that they watch hour after hour. One dealer a while back at one of these sucker joints as I was talking to him simply said I should play elsewhere, then he was how I was playing and giving him small tips from my wins and he smiled we chatted about his long career as a craps dealer in Vegas and how things have changed, for the worse.

    TDVegas, OAP and a lot of the 'Casino fan club boys' types play Bubble Craps Slot machine. Of course they say, "Nobody can win" cause nobody wins on a SLOT. Of course they say the dice are fair cause they don't know anything but the bubble. Those bubble craps dice have rounded edges and they roll around a lot and will easily land on what ever face the machine has set the die to land on. Keep in mind, we have no idea of what technology is inside those large red rounded corner dice! Nor what technology is under the machine that can influence the dice.

    Ignorance cannot be used as a position of authority. Playing a slot version of a table game does not make one an expert on the actual table game that the slot is based on.

    The nay-Sayers of bad dice, like Heavy who plays craps perhaps six times a year, or TDVegas who plays Slot version of craps, simply stand on ignorance as to what they say. How can anyone take what they say seriously? how?

    I am on The Strip EVERYDAY. I definitely not the only one who knows what I know too, who works the tables along The Strip. Unlike the deranged thinking of TDVegas, nobody is yelling at the Craps crews or the casino screaming about 'bad dice', that is not happening- probably never will happen. Tourist have no clue, they expect to lose anyway. Locals find The Strip to crowded, to much of a pain in the ass, so avoid it. And, anyway most locals I see all over this city think that 6/5 bonus poker is a good game (96.87% return) Yikes!!!

    Unbalanced dice can be highly volatile. There can be epic cold runs with such dice, but they can also suddenly turn red hot for brief times as well. It is these red hot moments that the players remember and come back for again and again - just like the Slot Players. The issue though with bad dice is that the epic cold runs can bust a player out fast and they simply don't have the bankroll to survive to the hot flashes that such dice bring.

    OK, not all The Strip Casinos use bad dice all of the time, on all tables. Being on The Strip everyday, I know what casinos use bad dice, what they are, and typically when they come out. I am not omnipotent as TDVegas would insist I become, I cannot tell anyone what numbers will roll before the dice roll with bad dice. But then again, such statements only come from an absurd person who argues out of ignorance anyway. Honestly, paying Bubble Craps Slot makes on an expert on Dice? LOL And, anyone believes this?

    Heavy, the Tyler Texas self-appointed Craps Guru who only plays craps perhaps six times a year, often says that those who believe in 'bias dice' or what he calls the 'Short Dice Crew' are only seeing short term variance. LOL! Seriously, a guy from Tyler Texas who plays soo infrequently is a Dice Expert about the dice on The Las Vegas Strip? Honestly, anyone who listens to that guy or believes a word he says need to have their head examined.

    So, where to play fair game of Craps? Probably not in Las Vegas. Try Biloxi, Tunica, the NorthEast Casinos, Colorado, and Canadian casinos as well. SuperRIck has done a lot of traveling round Las Vegas over the years and has found casinos you can find a fair game, and it is NOT ON THE STRIP.

    I'm tired of arguing with ignorant people from absurd positions. You want to discuss this issue with me any further, come to The Las Vegas Strip and we will discuss it in person.
     
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  11. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    You complain FAR, FAR too much to be a winning gambler, poop. If you had any preconceived ideas that some grind craps method could "beat the game"...then you have little understanding of probability mathematics. I suggest regular play is giving you that education.

    You're not beating the game. Sorry to burst your "bubble.";)

    You're not omnipotent or even have an ability to differentiate between simple, straight out variance and what would be a known bias. Guessing is not evidence. That's what you do.

    When you have actual evidence and not a misinformed opinion (like on bubble craps)...there is a whole group of players who would like to cash in on this bias. Let us know.

    The bias dice stuff is disgruntled gamblers, losing. Nothing more.

    Neither do you. Guessing like that is similar to guessing bias dice. No evidence and just throw it out there and see if any shit sticks to the wall. It ain't sticking.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2016
  12. Craps Poopshoot, Dec 10, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    This becomes your ABSURD BELIEFS from Ignorance. You don''t know anything!

    You admit ignorance that you play a machine where you do not know if the dice are fair, if there is technology in those large rounded corner dice or what technology is under the bubble that could possibly influence the dice. Who then is the bigger fool then?
     
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  13. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    I don't have paranoia...

    You claim bias dice usage is rampant in Vegas...

    You admit ignorance that you play craps not knowing if bias dice are on the table or not until it's too late and you've lost.

    Who's the fool here?

    I trust the game I'm playing is fair.
    You don't trust the game you're playing is fair...yet continue to play.
     
    #13
  14. driglaz, Dec 10, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    if the sum of 2 dice equals 7 the outcome is a 7.

    i don't comprehend this...... every possible number that can be rolled from 2 to 12 has one of these numbers in it. You can take any outcome, change 1 dice and within 2 rotations make it a 7

    there are only 3 combinations to generate a 7.

    5-2
    6-1
    4-3

    dice at the end of a 8 hour shift do not act the same way brand new dice out of the sleeve act.

    your bias dice theory still has nothing to stand on except your perception that 2 are good and 3 are bad and you always have this perception.
     
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  15. Edward-ky, Dec 10, 2016

    Edward-ky

    Edward-ky Member

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    It seems a lot of the people on this forum think they are experts and have all the answers. You all have claims and yet back it up with absolutely no fact or proof. You claim proof or fact but don't provide any. I play the game since I enjoy doing it. I don't know why some of you play I assume most is due to greed.
     
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  16. driglaz, Dec 10, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    i stated there are only 3 combinations to generate a 7.

    5-2
    6-1
    4-3

    but there are 6 ways to produce these 3 combinations by reverse the numbers.

    2-5
    1-6
    3-4

    another flaw with eagles argument is that you would have to at all times know the left and right dice. after you throw them and they land you need to know that the dice you think was on left when you started is being counted as the left dice, and same for the right side dice, this assumes they do not cross.

    again the argument is just flawed. it has no backbone to stand on.
     
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  17. TDVegas, Dec 10, 2016

    TDVegas

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    That because you have a healthy understanding of craps and gambling. Some do not and will cite every excuse in the book for losing ways...

    Rigged games
    Bad dice
    Collusion among dealers to disrupt you
    Etc, etc.
     
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  18. driglaz, Dec 10, 2016

    driglaz

    driglaz Member

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    Non felt surfaces
    different sizes of legal dice
    the long tables
    Pyramids
    slow dealers


    or just blame "loaded dice'

    i think some of you could glue the dice together and still lose.
     
    #18
  19. Onautopilot, Dec 10, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    The mentality of casinos cheating, being the reason "I" lost, has been around for eons.

    One day in Reno after my shift, I was walking down to the Cal Neva to socialize for a while, this guy sitting on the curb asks me for some money to get something to eat. I stopped, and asked him, "Do you really want something to eat, or are you going to gamble the money?", he answered, "I never gamble on the week-ends, the casinos tighten the screws on all the machines, and rig all the games to get those Californian's money!".

    I gave him a dollar, I am pretty sure I probably funded his need for a bottle of wine, or a go at a quarter table. No big deal, didn't really care.

    Oh, I didn't bother to ask him how he knew the casinos were cheating on the week-ends. :)
     
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  20. Edward-ky, Dec 10, 2016

    Edward-ky

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    Was that Harley? I think he used that dollar to buy a balancing caliper
     
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