Full Monte Craps- FMC exposes a system that works

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. SevenOut, Oct 4, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Full Monte Craps, FMC, is intended to maximize your Bankroll exposure at a Craps Table and make the best of long rolls and maintain some stability in a player's long term loses.

    The FMC strategy has three bankrolls for the average Craps Player. A $100, $200 and a $300 bankroll is all you need. If you are a Dice Setter, this works for you. If you are a Mathematical Player, this is a game you can stomach over the long term. If you have no Dice Setting skill(s) or even fully understand the Mathematics of Craps... it will make NO DIFFERENCE. This is an aggressive game for each bankroll. This is a tested and modifiable game plan for Recreational Craps Players who want a game plan that is stimulating and yet has a long run of success. For two years, six Craps Dealers narrowed down this game for Front Line Craps Players. If you are a Don't Pass or a Doey/Don't System player, this is something outside of your philosophy of play. But, you are more than welcome to offer your comments.

    There is no 100% guaranteed way to Beat Craps. It is not designed to be a fair game of chance. The Craps mathematics is built around the Casino getting a cut of every win and 100% of every loss. Although this House Advantage may be small on some bets, and large on others, it adds up on each and every roll of the dice. I call it "Bucking the Odds". It is not fair to those winning. It is not fair to those losing. Sorry, it was not intended to be a 50/50 tradeoff from the table's sponsor, the Casino, and the customer, you.

    Since this system, game or game plan will take some additional time, I need to submit this post so I am not timed out and lose the entire thought process. My FMC game plan is my next post. Please participate and explore its strengths and weaknesses.
     
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  2. SevenOut, Oct 4, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    The Foundation of FMC:

    (1) The Bankrolls of $100, $200 and $300 is just a multiple of your setting up bets. A $200 bankroll is 2X the $100 game. The $300 is 2X the $100 bankroll with a $100 reserve for a choppy game. Each Craps Player has a comfort zone for Recreational Craps playing. I prefer a $200 game. If you are winning, it is easy to put your game into the $300 system, using the winnings. If you are losing at the $300 or $200 bankroll... you can move into the $100 bankroll game. It is a Progressive System. Not a Martingale. The Martingale System is for LOSERS trying to recovers previous losses. The FMC system is designed for Hit and Run players, like myself. My dealing and playing at Craps was the BEST TRAINING anyone could possibly gain for time at a table.

    (2) The best table for FMC is a $5 table. Each bankroll is best applied at this table minimum. At a $10 table the $200 and $300 bankrolls are the only options, and this is the MAXIMUM for a $200 bankroll game. The Place Bets are also doubled and makes a $200 bankroll too small for a choppy beginning. At a $25 minimum table... you adjust the bankroll to $500. If you are at a $3 Table... go to the $5 strategy without giving it any thought... $3 minimum is not intended to help the Player at all.

    (The bets given are for the $100 bankroll. If you are a $200 bankroll player, 2X the bets. If you are a $300 bankroll player, 2X the bets and the additional $100 is for a losing session of the Set/Seven Out bankroll killer.)

    (3) FMC Mathematics involves TWO GAME PLANS. These are aggressive games to WIN. If you want to play for TIME, decrease your exposure at the table where you are comforatable.

    (3a) FMC Inside Number Game: On the Come Out roll if the Point is an "inside number" (5, 6, 8 or 9) you will PLACE the rest of the inside numbers with $5 (5 or 9) or $6 (6 or 8). (Remember $200/$300 bankroll players go to 2X Place Bets.) Play "up to" the table maximum on the Odds. Remember this is meant to be an aggressive Hit and Run winning system. (At the beginning of your session, you can play a minimum of $10 ODDS and increase when comfortable as ODDS are your best bet on the table. I will play a minimum of $20 on the 5/9 and $25 on the 6/8 with the $200 and $300 bankroll.) Place the Hard 6 and Hard 8 with a $5 bet no matter the point. If the point is a 6 or 8, I will sometimes go to a $10 on the Point Hard Way when I have House Winnings available. I do not let myself get into anything, other than the conservative WINNERS position. All of the other bet options on the table are not there because the Casino likes you.

    You will then have money on the 5, 6, 8 and 9. Avoid the FIELD and if you have a few spare $1 chips... C/E, Hops or other real sucker bets just to make it a bit more interesting.

    (3b) FMC Outside Number Game: On the Come Out roll if the Point is an "outside number" (4 or 10) you will play up to 10X odds on the point. Place the 6 and 8 for $6 (for ALL $100-$300 bankroll players). Bet $5 on the Hardway of the Point 4 or 10. Bet $5 on the Hardway 6 AND 8. If an easy 6 or 8 hit during the roll, use the win on your Place Bet to SAME BET on the hardway. This is WHY you have the Place Bets of 6 and 8 minimums on the table. Sometimes when you are on an Outside Number, you do not want to miss the Hard 6 or 8. I will some times increase my Outside Number with a $10 Hardway bet, IF my ODDS bet is larger.
     
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  3. SevenOut, Oct 4, 2013

    SevenOut

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    ADDITIONAL COMMENTS to complement the two FMC "Systems"

    (3a) FMC Inside Number Game: On the Come Out roll if the Point is an "inside number" (5, 6, 8 or 9) you will PLACE the rest of the inside numbers with $5 (5 or 9) or $6 (6 or 8). (Remember $200/$300 bankroll players go to 2X Place Bets.) Play "up to" the table maximum on the Odds. Remember this is meant to be an aggressive Hit and Run winning system. (At the beginning of your session, you can play a minimum of $10 ODDS and increase when comfortable as ODDS are your best bet on the table. I will play a minimum of $20 on the 5/9 and $25 on the 6/8 with the $200 and $300 bankroll.) Place the Hard 6 and Hard 8 with a $5 bet no matter the point. If the point is a 6 or 8, I will sometimes go to a $10 on the Point Hard Way when I have House Winnings available. I do not let myself get into anything, other than the conservative WINNERS position. All of the other bet options on the table are not there because the Casino likes you.

    You will then have money on the 5, 6, 8 and 9. Avoid the FIELD and if you have a few spare $1 chips... C/E, Hops or other real sucker bets just to make it a bit more interesting.

    (3b) FMC Outside Number Game: On the Come Out roll if the Point is an "outside number" (4 or 10) you will play up to 10X odds on the point. Place the 6 and 8 for $6 (for ALL $100-$300 bankroll players). Bet $5 on the Hardway of the Point 4 or 10. Bet $5 on the Hardway 6 AND 8. If an easy 6 or 8 hit during the roll, use the win on your Place Bet to SAME BET on the hardway. This is WHY you have the Place Bets of 6 and 8 minimums on the table. Sometimes when you are on an Outside Number, you do not want to miss the Hard 6 or 8. I will some times increase my Outside Number with a $10 Hardway bet, IF my ODDS bet is larger.[/quote]

    When I say to AVOID PLAYING THE FIELD, avoid the other Stick Bets... NEVER put anything on the Any Seven or try to protect your Pass Line bet with an Any Craps bet. IF you just have to play the Any Craps on a Come Out roll, play when you have chips in excess of your original bankroll. These bets are impulse bets and add up over time. They are fun when they hit... but you will pay in the long run.

    The Big 6 and Big 8. Do not play. Those were originally for the Hard 6 and Hard 8 players to keep at even money when the number came easy. That is why I have the PLACE BETS on the 6 and 8. Better odds for the player.

    Any Seven. Can you spell... S...U...C...K...E...R bet forwards and backwards. Field Action... just leave it to those who want to stick their hand into the Cookie Jar with something nasty living on the bottom of the jar to trim your nails a bit.

    Stick to the (3a) or (3b) FMC Game plans. When the numbers are hitting... press at will... or do not press. When you become familiar with the (3a) game, you can press bets at will. The (3b) game is to maximize the Odds Bet and maybe some Hardways will come your way on the Point and Six and Eight.

    My experience has shown that the Hard Ways are my long shot profit makers. I have been up to $25 on the point hard way to win. When you begin to think you cannot lose... better start putting $25 chips into your pocket, as the game can turn around and take your bankroll and any winnings faster than you could add them to the chip rack.

    Once you have protected your original bankroll and have the profits working on the table and more in your rack... you have two options.

    Hit and Run. Or, the Go For IT. Press your bets up and break out from a break even game to a big winner. When you are working outside of your bankroll... this is where you can feel comfortable and PLAY THE WINNER'S GAME. If you lose at this point, you had better take your bankroll and what is left of your winnings and RUN. There is always a next time.

    This game will work. You need to understand the Bankroll Management and betting strategy. If your pulse rate is in the Heart Attack zone... back down a bit. You need to be conscious to win. If you are losing, still, with these two games... I cannot help you. Try this at home on your practice layout.
     
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  4. SevenOut, Oct 4, 2013

    SevenOut

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    Since I find my posts so interesting, I have other options hiding in my pocket... if I were not playing Full Monte Craps.

    To be consistent at playing Craps, Keep It Simple Stupid, aka KISS, is the best game. The more complicated the game, system, technique... the worse you will come out of a session. A lousy game plan consistently will deliver poor financial returns. If your game plan has not been working... give up the DI and go rogue, throw random shots. If is still does not work, go back to the beginning of this Thread and read it, comprehend WHY and go at the Craps Table with a new persona. There is a glow around those who play Craps and make it difficult for the Casino to strip you of your bankroll too easily. It is FMC karma.

    Do your own homework. Practice random shots with this FMC system, and a system it is. Polished from years of use.

    Prefer the "high roller games"? First point, you are not a high roller. Second point. A high roller will not appreciate winning $90 on a $10 hardway 8 and another $14 for the $12 Place Bet. His life is boring and is more aligned with money out and money in. The average player on this Forum is like myself. A recreational player. A $10,000 bankroll? You would be insulted to be among the noisy masses on the main floor. You think me wrong... I guess you have not be losing $10,000 at a $100 minimum Craps table upstairs. Even the chip "colors" are in different when a player buys in.

    Have you seen the guy who buys in for $500 and buys the "ends" and places every number? Do not watch his "winnings", watch the chip rack. It will evaporate like good whiskey on a table. You are Bucking the Odds, big time.

    One thing nice about an aggressive to win and conservative house advantage total exposure as the FMC... you CAN win. On a long roll and going into the "Go For IT"... someone can recoup prior losses from poor table exposure to the House Advantage.

    This has been so entertaining, I will reread these posts. Maybe I will find someone at a local Casino playing smart. Why, it could be just me taking my winnings and leaving Craps layout dust in my absence.

    For Casino perks and ratings. The Casino does not put out the perks only if you are losing every time you lose your bankroll. They especially want the players who have been winning... BACK... so they get another crack at your game. Do not believe me? IF you win big and the Floorman is watching... he will follow you to the Cashier to offer show tickets, room, buffet... or a clean pair of pants that you lost earlier at another table. Good luck. Have a sense of humor. Do not think like a Craps Degenerate. They are easy to spot by their replies. The Craps degenerates uses many words to express simple thoughts... Many wear a gold plated bulky chain around their neck, have a fake Rolox mariner and the Cubic Zirconia pinky ring turns green on the skin.. (It is a fake Rolex... get it Rolox... geez.)
     
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  5. mycoalsmith, Oct 5, 2013

    mycoalsmith

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    Sevenout,

    Do you do anything to "qualify" a shooter? I think your system sounds good except for the quick 7 out which is going to be hard to recover from several quick losses. Sometimes "chicken feeders" get lucky and do get on a roll, but for the most part, the majority of people 7 out quickly. While it would be nice to be "on board" with someone from the start that ends up being a long roller, the Point, 7 out crowd tends to eat your bankroll.
     
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  6. SevenOut, Oct 5, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    You are right about the Point, Set Up and Seven Out. That is why you need the adequate bankroll to recover from at least two quick, little or no payout games with a Seven Out. What is left of the bankroll is then used on the Pass Line, maximum odds and a hardway if there is anything left. This is the Go For It while experiencing a losing session. It happens. Not often, but nothing is guaranteed.

    I do not qualify a shooter. This is the strength of this game plan. I do not care who is shooting. My bets are the same. Maybe less if your bankroll is down, but once you begin to get some winnings coming into the bankroll, I begin to press up bets. If a 5 is rolled for $14, I will throw down $1 and press both the 5 and 9 and get a $5 chip. If one is point, press a 6 or 8 and take the single chips for future place bets on the 6 and/or 8.

    You can play this with $100, but we use to advise that you skip one inside number, but retain the hard way wagers as they are your "profit makers". Get a number, then use that winning to fill in the empty Place Bet.

    It is simple and plays the most often numbers to be rolled. One day it was a money maker and the next time you decide the table is too choppy and will come back later or take a short break. It is all RANDOM ROLL DECISIONS. When the hardways hit, this is the large income producers. The Pass Line and Odds are your next incoming chip maker, and lastly the Place Bets, unless you are pressing them after every other win, each win or some pressing when you are comfortable with the random shooting.

    Bet TOO MANY options at the table, your House Disadvantage requires too many payouts before a Seven Out. So you are left with playing 4 numbers, or 3, or 2 numbers and adding additional Place Bets when winning. It is tough when you find a number hitting several times and you do not have a bet on it! It is not a grind like some other strategies to win a couple dollars in chips, risking bankroll on the Don't and Pass Line.

    I can take a pair of dice, roll them onto the place mat and do a mental game of "how am I doing". You can run a half hour of Casino Table Time in a matter of minutes. Sometimes you feel you cannot win no matter what... but I have been playing this simple game every time I play Craps.
     
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  7. Smokespray, Oct 20, 2013

    Smokespray

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    SevenOut;
    Just a quick thought on the Degenerate with the gold chain.
    If his watch is a fake Rolex, wouldn't that make it a genuine "Rolox?"
    Just wonderin'...
    On another note, just to confirm. Is it correct that this strategery is based on your experience dealing and playing? My local casino only offers 3-4-5 odds. How would this effect the outside game in the long run?

    SS
     
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  8. SevenOut, Oct 20, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    You are right, it is a genuine Rolox. You use to see these guys on the Strip in Las Vegas selling all of these "fake" look a like watches. Now they are out handing the Porn card promotions... times change, but the hustlers do not. I bet there are many Forum members that remember the guy missing both of his legs sitting out on the Strip for donations on some kind of four wheeler. He was around for years.

    The Casinos that are offering the 3-4-5 will eventual get back to a 5X odds. Those Casinos with the 2X... just leave. They did this at the Ameristar in Blackhawk, Colorado who went from 10x, 3-4-5x to 5x. I believe they changed hands at least once in that time period. Just west of Blackhawk you can find a 10x game, $5 minimum at the Century Casino.

    To beat the house on the point 4 or 10 3x odds, place the bet as that is 4x odds immediately. You still have a flat bet of $5 on the Pass Line, but that is even money no matter what the table odds limit would be at the time. Buy the 4 or 10 if your wager is $25, $50, etc..

    The less Craps educated the players, the more the Casino will squeeze them. Savvy players can work around to improve on the House Disadvantages by understanding HOW TO DO IT. Some times it is easier to go to the Casino that offers the BEST ODDS and before you depart the former Casino... Tell Them WHY you are going next door. They will get the message.

    Getting back to my jest of the player with the Rolox and 24k plated Silver tow chain... just like some of these Big Shots on the Forum that brag about all of the money won at a session. People who have won big, who have active money making investments and income... do not brag about it. It is in poor taste and an indication of a loser making big talk, while borrowing twenty bucks from you for gas money. If I were to brag about all of my big wins... I would be lying all of the time.
     
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  9. SevenOut, Nov 5, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I have come up with some ideas as to options to the Full Monte Craps game. Of course, as usual it is aligned with the rules of mathematics and your preferences. Please do the following test to see which system is best for YOUR Game.

    Pick a number from 1 to 9
    Multiply that number by 3
    Add 3
    Multiply by 3 again
    Take the two digit number and add the two digits together. It will be between 1 to 17. (For example: 74 is 7 + 4= Preference 11...)

    Craps System Preference Planner:

    1. Front Line without Odds
    2. Don't Pass with Odds
    3. Come Bets with Full Odds
    4. Proposition Bets ONLY
    5. Lay Bets without odds
    6. Lay Bets with MAXIMUM Odds
    7. Doey/Don't with odds
    8. DI Front Line and Hardways
    9. Full Monte Craps system
    10. Field Bettor with Place Bet of the 5, 6 and 9
    11. Don't Come with Front Line Bet and Odds
    12. Round Robin with no Odds
    13. Place bets on the 4,6,8 and 10 and HARDWAYs
    14. Same old game with someone else's money
    15. Alternate Don't Pass with Odds with Pass Line with Odds
    16. Bankroll Craps with Cheese Cloth control
    17. Any Seven for $25 on the fourth and sixth roll

    Sometimes you just cannot win, but somewhere you have a fondness for high energy, high risk games of your choice.
     
    #9
  10. The Comeback Kid, Nov 6, 2013

    The Comeback Kid

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    My my, everything looks delicious.

    Waiter, bring me a #8 with a side of # 5. Damn the #11 looks good too.

    Wait, hold that, are substitutions allowed here?

    Do I or don’t I, after all I am 300 lbs.

    Tell me, does the fried bankroll have any pork in it?

    And is it Kosher?

    Did you say Someone Else is paying?

    Well in that case have Monty lay me a Round Robin the hardway with maximum MSG
    and hold cheese cloth control.

    For starters I’ll have an order of the forth & sixth roll. They’re vegan right?

    Compliments to Monty
     
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  11. SevenOut, Nov 7, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    You know, by now, that no matter what you do, #9 is what will come up as the solution.

    The Full Monte works for me and when the dice are rolling numbers... and pressing bets... you will understand why aggressive action is MY preference.

    This is why you have to question any mathematics and statistics concerning Craps Systems and Percentages. This is a mathematical procedure I modified from the original, apply it to Craps for our amusement. Feel free to use it.
     
    #11
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
  12. SevenOut, Aug 21, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Scan 1 16-15-43.jpeg Bringing the Full Monte System back from the dead.

    If you take the Dice Pyramid, you can easily understand that by playing the 5, 6, 8 and 9, fifty percent of the possible dice combinations are covered. Playing any more numbers is playing too aggressive and I do not recommend taking on that much of a risk to recoup your bankroll on the cloth at one time.

    The potential for a Seven Out does not change. It is always about 16.67% to lose it all. But... the four inside numbers are THREE times more likely to be rolled on each roll than the Seven.

    17% to 50% This is not an estimate. Not a guess. It is the statistical comparison of outcomes to be expected on the current roll and any to follow.

    When I am playing $32/$34 Inside Place Bets, $5/$10 with 2X to 6X+ Odds, where permitted, and assessing my Bankroll situation... I have an aggressive WINNING System and not depending on minimizing a LOSS Wagering Strategy that the majority of Craps Players seem to prefer.

    Lets say that the Point is FIVE. I have $10 on the Pass Line, $30 Odds, $12 on the Six, $12 on the Eight, $10 on the Nine, $5 Hard Eight, $5 Hard Six. A total of $84.00.

    42% of a $200 Bankroll or 28% of a $300 Bankroll.

    A Point Seven Out is a major set back! So could be the drive back home at midnight avoiding drunks and a stalled car around the next sharp turn... NO Gain if you cannot survive some pain in the process of playing Craps.

    Take a pencil, paper and adding machine to develop some confidence in this System. How many Place Bets do you need to lock up in your chip rack to get to the break even point?

    How many Place Bets and Point?

    How many Place Bets, Hard 6 or 8 for Break Even?

    MY FIRST GOAL IS TO HAVE THE ORIGINAL BANKROLL LOCKED UP IN MY CHIP RACK... and whatever else that you decided to keep and not press any other wagers on the table.

    I have been in Craps Games where I was down to my last $45 of a $200 bankroll, turned it around and left with decent winnings and my bankroll. Just a matter of timing. There are times where no matter what System or wagering strategy you have confidence... you could not win no matter how you played. It happens. I play down to my last chips, as long as I have enough to play 2 Place Bets... Placing the 6 and 8 and the Hard 6 and 8. Anything left is put on the Hardways.

    When the inside numbers keep repeating and hardways are coming out of any reasonable person's understanding of dice outcomes... you have to keep your confidence and begin to play winnings into additional wagers. Almost like being in a death spiral and fighting your way out of a total wipeout in a matter of minutes! Someday you might experience, or already have those memories, returning from a Bankroll bankruptcy.

    I keep my Bankroll Count using $1 chips to separate the first $100 and then in $50 groupings. I glance, I know the total and close to what is on the table. Those on the table are "working for you". What is in your chip rack are already out of play and now you have decided to risk your current winnings for those unpredictable procession of repeat Place Bet hits.

    When I am ahead and with profit locked up, I will begin to press up my Place Six and Eight and for each unit Press UP the Hardways. And when the hardway hits, you get paid for the Place Bet and the Hardway Bet.

    It is at this time you are watching each roll with anticipation of another win. The risk to you Bankroll is over. You are now keeping some or all of your winnings and pressing up as more come in. No one knows if or when this roll will end. The 7 still has not increased beyond 17% and the 50% of possible outcomes still are unchanged.

    You can cut the wagers in half at the beginning and begin to press up sooner, than later. When those rolls of 3, 5 or 24 outcomes favor your inside bets... with presses on Place Bets and your Odds... the air becomes thin and each roll is an episode for you and the players around you.

    If you lose 60% of the time and take the aggressive play 40% of the time increasing your wagers while winning... your past losses can be returned with only winning 40% of Sessions.

    Think about it before you act. The reason you are playing Craps is to WIN. When you are are a winning Session, you make the best of the run while you have chips coming into your Bankroll. Be generous on your wager pressing.

    If you could foresee the future of this Session... you would never play Craps as it would not be fun. It is the NOT KNOWING that makes you, the dice and your wagering work together.

    As you become adjusted to playing aggressively, you do not get cold feet. You play with confidence. You WILL know when to QUIT. Play too long, you WILL LOSE. When the last Seven Out clears off a $120 sitting on the cloth... you have something to post on the Forum.

    An extra $300 in my pocket will not change my life. Two hundred dollars missing from my wallet will not change my life. Play to win. The amount might be $10 when you quit... Breaking EVEN is winning. You can always come back and catch that next Craps Wave and ride it to its end.

    Good luck and in several weeks I plan to step back into a Casino and push my luck... one more time.
     
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  13. KokomoJoe4, Aug 21, 2014

    KokomoJoe4

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    Alright, you convinced me. First time I tried FMC, it was a quick loser. Second time a longer play but still a loser. Third time, inside points were seldom/never made, no hard way winners, but a lot of inside place winners resulted in a small win. Fourth time hopefully a charm - I'll let you know.

    S.O., What odds do you normally place on the outside points when playing FMC?
     
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  14. SevenOut, Aug 21, 2014

    SevenOut

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    Post #2 explains the 4 or 10 as point. I will then play the Hardway for $5 (at least) and Place the 6 and the 8 for $6 each to cover for the $5 on each of the Hardways 6 and 8.

    Since you are NOT playing the $32 or $34 on all the inside numbers, I put that or as much of it you want to risk as ODDS on the outside point number.

    In the event the outside point is a WINNER at 2X Odds payout... there is a 1 of 3 chances it will be the hardway. Good for a $35 win and take the $5 down and wait the Come Out roll and I always hope it will be an inside number as that is the group where I make my best winnings.

    When you playing at the table and the inside Place Bets are repeating, you know 5, 5, 8, 9, 3, 5... 6 winner hard... you will be hooked.

    I always keep some $1 chips when I am playing the $10 5/9 and $12 6/8 so I get $15 in reds. When I am pressed up to $20 5/9 and $24 6/8 Place Bets I ride it out. I want to make the best of what is left of the roll, not retire on one session. I will press the Hardway 6 & 8 with 5 and 9 wins. I regress back to $5 if a 6/8 come easy but begin pressing with winnings as it happens.

    You will find what flows best for your game and stomach for getting whipped at times. You might have three or four loses, some total and others faint recovery of half your original bankroll and quit. Come back after a break and catch a long roll with Hardways and 4/10 points.

    Everyone looks for a 100% winner. You just want to be playing with your winnings working for you and your bankroll safely in the rack. Keep a little profit for gas money and buffet. The "tide goes in and goes out". You have to manage it and quit when you have had enough.

    If you insist on playing on a choppy table... it will clean you out faster than expected. Sometimes, the oddest characters will throw awkward shots and hit everything back and forth and you will ask yourself... why? Don't question it, press some more and as long as your bankroll is even with a bit of spare change... you will leave as a winner.
     
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  15. Grizzoola, Aug 22, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    7Out: Do you have a win goal?
     
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  16. SevenOut, Aug 22, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    "Grizzoola: 7Out: Do you have a win goal?"
    ********
    I set no win goal. When I am ahead with profit in my chip rack and my winnings left on the table working for me... it is the Seven Out that forces me to determine if I have had enough play or not. When I decide to quit, I color up and cash my chips at the Cashier. Sometimes I have $100 to $140 of winnings, working on the table after a good session... wanting one or more good numbers to hit. This is the time when I can double, triple or more, my starting bankroll and let the dice decide by clearing off my pressed wagers with the Seven Out and end of a good Session shooter. Let the winnings work for you and not your Bankroll.

    During my "earlier days" I might grind the profits down to my original Bankroll... and quit, hoping for a hot streak. Now, I try to mark off $25, $50 or something reasonable to keep for "overhead" and QUIT. My wife and I call it "gas money".

    I do set my loss limit to my bankroll, which is almost always $200.

    I will play my Bankroll down to $000 and never dip into my wallet to buy more chips when a Session has not worked out. My philosophy of playing is that the dice can turn hot at any time and with my aggressive game the winnings return my bankroll near, to or above my original buy in of $200.

    A bankroll, as I had discussed in previous posts is my Stop Loss. You only need a larger bankroll when you are losing at the table. When you are winning, your bankroll is the fuel to feed your wagers at the beginning and the winnings are used to press up bets and reverse the outflow to an inflow of chips into your chip rack.

    This aggressive play is best for those who live close to the Casino of choice. If I had to drive four hours to play... I would find myself getting into the mind set to get my "game time"... and that is usually a poor way to buck the odds. The Casino already is aware of this and has no problem raising the Table Minimum to $10, $25... as you WILL PLAY and with a larger bankroll to support any kind of System of Play. Adding time to the equation will become a major factor in taking a winning session and turning it into a losing session!

    The setting of a Stop Loss is as important if not more so that a Win Goal. I am like most Craps Players. I like to play but I do not like to lose. Getting time on the table is less important to me than catching a good game, quitting and cashing in with the "Hit and Run" mind set.

    This is a good time to stand back and WATCH the Craps game... after you have colored up and pocketed your chips. If the game went "sour"... you have some satisfaction in knowing that you saved yourself a bundle. If the game turns hot... you get that urge to jump back into the game, but those rolls have already been lost to you.

    There are no short, easy answers. Each game to me is independent of all those in the past. The atmosphere and direction the table has gone keeps me interested. When you begin to see lots of rolls that do not fall into your game... it will affect your confidence. It happens. There are those times where quitting was the smartest thing you did at a Craps Table. There will always be room later to squeeze onto a table and catch a long inside number Session. That is all I can say...
     
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  17. Grizzoola, Aug 22, 2014

    Grizzoola

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    I understand your loss limit is your BR. Looks like your win goal is either ~$50 or breaking even. Not bad. I find if a session is going badly, just making it back to even is a win. I like to spend at least an hr. at the table, win or lose. Just me. My wins/loses are minimal, altho sometimes my loss limit ($150 out of a $200 BR) has been reached within an hr.

    It's obvious you are not going into the poorhouse with your style of play after so many years. Right now, I'm feeling my way along, not yet ready to progress, press, etc., altho I remain interested in your FMC. I just need to get to the tables more to get more experience/knowledge/confidence, etc.
     
    #17
    yacraps likes this.
  18. SevenOut, Aug 22, 2014

    SevenOut

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    When I was starting out around the Craps Tables at the ripe age of 24 or 25... I did not know jack about Craps... but played anyways. I had no clue why I was winning or why I was losing. Everyone offered advice, mostly bad. I had nothing to compare but one loser's game and then listen to the next guy. Late in the 1970's I would hang around the Las Vegas Gaming schools as the break in dealers wanted someone other than another student to work with. IT was at that time I figured out Craps. Reading a book or spending hours working with a pair of dice did not trump the negative expectation of Craps play, NOR the absolute requirement you had a SYSTEM that was aggressive and intended to WIN in less than one hour and QUIT with your temporary profit(s). You all understand temporary when playing Craps.

    It was not until I had a crew, 1800 square foot main street building with two Craps tables, a half size student's table and teaching ourselves how to deal and play three evenings a week. While setting up the tables and we moved chips around the cloth and criticized lousy Systems and the other nuances that come with any and all forms of gambling. The males wanted to deal and play Craps. The women dealers wanted to deal Black Jack, Let it Ride and Roulette. OK, we have this covered as far as who likes to deal what...

    No dealer suggested or came up with a Don't Pass side of Craps. Even those experienced Craps Players that would come in did not even want to consider the Don't. I remember only one local business owner who would nurse his buy in... and he was our best... chip buying customer!

    After working the "teaching tables" for a couple years, we came up with a $100 and a $200 Bankroll aggressive game. When $2/$3 tables pretty much disappeared to $5 and $10 minimums. This System evolved into this Full Monte Craps thread. I made the name up when I started the thread. I will find my original work sheets and I think it was called $100 System and the other, of course, the $200 System. Inflation pushed the table minimums up so it became a $200 / $300 Full Monte.

    Full Monte, like the movie was intended to get the idea that with this System... you are letting it all hang out at the table.

    It takes nerves of steel at first. You will think you are nuts... You will want to play longer than you should because when the dice are favorable... you think you cannot lose. Many of the students of Craps we had come in and paid, maybe $20 or $30 for a three hour course... with a dealer giving the class. Using non negotiable house chips they found it fun... It was when they went to the Casino with real CASH at risk... they wilted like a weed sprayed with weed killer.

    I do not understand where some posters toss $1000 and $2000 bankrolls around like they are printing it at home. I am not happy if I lose my $200. Today, at $3.50 a gallon of gas I can get a hell of a long ways from the Casino that ended up with my bankroll for that $200. Two Hundred Dollars is all the risk one need to expose at a Craps Table. If you are winning... you have already primed the pump. If you are losing... it just was not your night and there will be more nights and more tables to play in the future.

    I should write a book and make up Systems that really do not work at all, but give examples and names of dead players you can not interview. I can make up statistics and make it all look nice and tight. Classes for years. Second editions with more interviews of fictional people. It is not my style. I enjoy Craps. I enjoy a lively discussion even more than playing Craps. I would like to have chump reading this and they convert to the FMC and really kick the Casino in the jewels for once... and tell us about it. Just one and it will make my time worthwhile.

    Craps is a life long endeavor. You will be fortunate to break even at the end, but that battle will have lasting memories... and you can make up this shit faster than I can... but you still will need a decade or more to catch up!

    Good luck. That is all I have left to offer.
     
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  19. cjs27410, Nov 20, 2014

    cjs27410

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    SevenOut - Thank you for the tutorial.
    After the point has been hit. Do you remove all the bets, or leave the 6&8 place bets and the hard 6&8 for the come out roll?
    Thanks
     
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  20. SevenOut, Nov 20, 2014

    SevenOut

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    CJS- Somewhere on the Forum is the $200 / $300 System I suggest interested players to test at home. You can also play it with $100, but split your bets in half. Everything else remains the same. There are a few Threads looking at the System several ways with comments from others.

    It has just been awhile since I had looked at the Threads, but they are probably under Advanced and Bankroll Management.

    There had been some comments on the Dice Influencing as well, but only mentioning it, as DI and Random Shooting have nothing in common, but a pair of dice.
     
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