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Has anybody taken Golden Touch Dice control class

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by smd163, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. smd163, Jul 21, 2012

    smd163

    smd163 New Member

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    I was hoping to get some honest opinions on the class. I've read all the books and even have a copy of the DVD. I practice throwing myself, and I have seen an improvement, but I know I am doing it 100% correctly. I am thinking of taking the class next year. It is very expensive, so I want to make sure I am not throwing my money away. Any honest feedback would be appreciated.
  2. Southern-Comfort, Jul 21, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

    Southern-Comfort Member

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    I can give you an opinion, but its not from having taken the class. I've seen Scoblete play at a craps table with two other guys. They all did very well, I have alot of respect for their ability. My trouble with them is that, from what I saw at least, what they do, - and what they share on their websites, are not the same. They do not play the same way they give away for free. Now, I don't know if they teach another way in their classes, but I would be wary. *they* are good, but I don't see casinos filled with others doing as well in their wake.
    There are others who don't feel the need to brag on themselves as much and don't bring imaginary friends into it, and donit charge near as much.
    Like I said, I don't know if they have some secret masonic way that they teach only live, but I don't see their multitudes of students at the tables, like I would think I would by now, either.
  3. DeMango, Jul 21, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Find Heavy. He is on this board. Do his class.
  4. eagledice, Jul 22, 2012

    eagledice

    eagledice New Member

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    DeMango is correct.

    One side note, Heavy is having a class next month in Tunica. He is expecting a great group. Send him a PM.

    Also if you ever get to Vegas a session with Beau Parker, the Dice Coach is a must.

    Both very reasonably. In fact I believe there is a substantial difference in Heavy's/Beau's cost vs Golden Touch.

    You can't go wrong and I am sure you will be very satisfied with either of these fine Gentlemen.

    Just my opinion.



    EagleDice
  5. Max Rockatansky, Jul 24, 2012

    Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky New Member

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    smd163

    As a new member of this board I want to share my experience about the training class I had with KogaNinja as I saw your post asking about Golden Touch Craps classes. When I started I read all the books and viewed all the videos. I have been practicing for over a year on my own thinking I knew what I was doing. I can say KogaNinja changed that instantly. The first thing he did was show me what his dice toss looks like and let me tell you his toss is off the freaking wall, it is really something you have to see to believe. For over a year I thought I was doing it right, I was wrong. Koga is very good at what he does and very well versed in his knowledge of dice control and the game of craps. He explains the concepts very well and he spent a lot of time answering all my questions. He took a great deal of time making sure I understood every detail of the subject we were covering. In no time at all he had me throwing hardways like it was going out of style. I know there are other classes in Las Vegas but I can tell you I’m totally happy with my decision to go with Koga. I know you wanted to hear about GTC, I will say this they are way over priced and I have spoken with people who have taken their class and I was told they felt they spent too much money for what they got. My personnel recommendation is to go with KogaNinja you can email him at koganinja777 at yahoo dot com. Or you can watch all his free videos on YouTube. Just type dice control and you will find his videos.

    Max Rockatansky
  6. DeMango, Jul 24, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    I need to see two things as a potential customer. The dice in flight and a price. Talk is cheap and headless talk more so. Ulimately the answer is do you have the talent or not. No class is going to replace the physical skill involved.
  7. basicstrategy777, Jul 24, 2012

    basicstrategy777

    basicstrategy777 Active Member

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    Talent ?.....Physical skills ?.......next thing I'm going to hear is you have to be an athelete.......need a workout regimine........eat the breakfast of champions ( can see that wheatees box now ).

    Hey.....how about an Olympic sport ( summer of course ).........qualifying trials should be very interesting to watch.

    777
  8. DeMango, Jul 24, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Yup BS, talent is involved. Something the snake oil salesman don't tell ya. Heard about the Forte video where he rolls 5 or so 12's in a row? That's talent.
  9. basicstrategy777, Jul 24, 2012

    basicstrategy777

    basicstrategy777 Active Member

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    'D'...... up early this morning.

    Too bad the casinos would not let you parlay a 1 dollar 'atomic craps' bet 5 times.....we'd be in the chips.

    777
  10. DeMango, Jul 24, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Well, our snake oil salesman, joined, made one post, and retired for the night. Looking forward to the next piece of bait!
  11. Max Rockatansky, Jul 24, 2012

    Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky New Member

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    This is for the self proclaimed dice control police officer known as Demango. What is ur problem? Do you have a screw lose? Why are you attacking my post?
    I gave an honest review of my time with KogaNinja and ur now trying to discredit it dude you have way too much time on your hands instead of keyboard jerking why don’t
    you get off your ass and your key board and play some craps. You also need to know Dice Coach, and GTC are not the only game in town anymore, those days are over.
    There are new trainers on the block which have something to teach and say. Since ur asking yes he is very good and yes I have had great results since training with him.
    I now know why he stays off of these types of forums. Jesus Christ, grew up man!

    Max Rockatansky
  12. DeMango, Jul 24, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Hey Jack;
    We have seen your kind before. We don't do headless videos. We don't do your inflammatory language, just proves our point. Seems like we hit a nerve, guess I'll just report you and let Jacob decide!
  13. Southern-Comfort, Jul 24, 2012

    Southern-Comfort

    Southern-Comfort Member

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    Report him for what? For replying to a question? Heck, Heavy, himself, advertises his Tunica seminar on here... and one post about somebody new and what happens?
    I'm interested in what wasn't said... what does Koga Ninja charge and what exactly do his teaching sessions include for that price? I'm not taking one side of the other, just trying to get a clear picture.
  14. DeMango, Jul 24, 2012

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    SC:
    First post and selling right off the git-go? We have all seen that before, just because it wasn't written in Russian, should we let it pass?

  15. Heavy

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    I am somewhat reluctant to post on this thread due to some of the history between the various dice control training camps. Frankly, I grew tired of the whole thing and took a couple of years off from the seminar business - primarily because I was fed up with some of the associated BS. When I cranked up my current forum and tip-toed back into the seminar business this year I decided I would not go negative on comments about the other camps and I will stick by that. There is a "History of Dice Control" from my point of view over on my forum. Anyone interested in that can register on the site at www.axispowercraps.com/crapsforum to gain access to the members only section, where the post resides.

    Here's what I will say about GTC. I know many of the principles of that group personally and have stepped up to the tables with most of them at one time or another. Several of them have attended my classes and Dice Coach's classes through the years - primarily "under the radar. There are some great shooters in their organization. Some are better than others. All of them, like all DI's, have good sessions and bad sessions. It's the nature of the game.

    There are some things I don't like about GTC based on things I've been told by players who have attended their classes. One is their pricing structure. I'm of the opinion they charge to much for their seminars. That's my opinion. Others my be okay with their rates and that's fine. I tend to be something of a spendthrift, so my thinking is influenced by that.

    I have heard many players complain that there is no consistency from coach to coach in the GTC seminars - especially when it comes to the toss they teach. Some players have told me that they came away from the seminar confused as to what was the proper way to throw the dice because they witnessed so many different toss styles among the coaches. Personally, I am not a fan of "cookie cutter" toss training. On the other hand, when you're dealing with new or relatively new players you do need some consistency in your approach.

    I've heard other complaints about their training. On the other side of the coin, some of the better shooters I know came through their camp. At the end of the day - I think it comes down to a matter of personal choice on these deals.

    I have no problems at all with Dice Coach and his program. Beau and I have done many seminars together through the years. The tosses we teach are virtually identical with the exception of the fact that Beau usually teaches the one-finger grip and I teach a three finger grip. Highly recommended.

    I have no knowledge of the Dice Ninja guy beyond what I've seen on YouTube. I will have to reserve judgement on his program.

    I have re-entered the Craps Seminar business in a small way. Where I was doing 8 - 10 seminars a year back in the good old days - I'm limiting myself to 3 - 4 classes a year now. Typically you'll see me do two classes in Vegas, one in Biloxi, and one in Tunica, Mississippi over the course of the year. I like to do Biloxi early in the year when the oysters are best. Yeah, there are other things in life than dice control. I usually follow that class with a Tunica class in May, concurrent with the World BBQ Championships in Memphis. Starting to see a trend here? Normally I'll do a Vegas class in the Summertime - when the temperature is up and the prices our down. Then I do a Fall session in Vegas - usually in mid-October.

    One of my Mississippi seminars typically runs $399 - $499 per person. That's a full day in the dealer school and a live casino session with the coaches on day 2. Note that I have no problem with the concept of stepping up to the table with the folks who sign on for my seminars. Not everyone in this business will do that. In fact, most will not.

    When I do Vegas classes the structure is somewhat different. Typically I'll do joint deals with other well-known DI's/Coaches like Irishsetter, Maddog, and Dice Coach. I set these classes up in three-hour sessions, doing 4 - 5 sessions over the course of a weekend. Players can sign on for 1, 2, or as many sessions as they want. They are menu-priced and there's typically a discount if you sign on for multiple sessions. Normally we do these for around $369 for one session - $695 for two - $995 for three, etc. On these weekends the primary focus is dice control, however I always do at least one session on betting strategies. Maddog and Irishsetter usually do a joint session on how to get the most our of the free BoneTracker software program Maddog developed. From time to time I'll also do a Craps Boot Camp team play session.

    My official position is that I do not teach a cookie cutter toss. I take what a player brings to the seminar and tweak it as needed to get the most out of what he's been working with without making wholesale changes. That's because whenever you make major changes to your grip or toss it pretty much sets you back six months or so in your development. In some cases, where a player's grip or toss is so bad that there's just nothing there to work with, we'll go back to the basic toss I teach, which is with the 3 finger front grip - tossed from the deck as opposed to using the pendulum toss taught by others.

    I've compared the from-the-deck toss to the pendulum toss many times. The biggest problem with the pendulum toss is that as soon as you pick the dice up off the table you introduce additional variability in spatial relationships between the dice and the table. The dice are no longer square with the deck when you pick them up. They are probably not square with the back wall. And because your perspective is skewed looking down your arm at the dice - you can't correct these problems without a second set of eyes watching and coaching. The from-the-deck toss eliminates all that and makes for a much simpler throw.

    So there you go. Different strokes for different folks. Any of them will work. It all depends on what you're looking for.
  16. smd163, Jul 24, 2012

    smd163

    smd163 New Member

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    Heavy do you ever get over to AC?

  17. Heavy

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    I've done a couple of AC classes, including a joint seminar with John Patrick a few years back. But the cost of doing business in AC is just too much for me with the way I price these deals.
  18. DontAsk, Sep 7, 2012

    DontAsk

    DontAsk New Member

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  19. Max Rockatansky, Sep 7, 2012

    Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky New Member

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    Just for kicks I'm posting Koga Ninjas Channel,,, I disagree with you!

    http://www.youtube.com/user/koganinja777?feature=CAgQwRs=

    Considering he has the second highest viewed video on YouTube under
    the search subject dice control is saying something. I speak from experience,
    I meet and coached with him and my game has changed dramatically since then.

    Max

  20. Heavy

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    Glad you liked his coaching. There's something out there for everyone. That's why they make Reece's cups AND Butterfinger candy bars. In the end it's all chocolate and peanut butter - some people just like it in a different form than others.