Hello from Chicago & Philly area ...

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by JCinPA, May 8, 2019.

  1. JCinPA, May 8, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    My family is in western Philly suburbs, 10 minutes from Valley Forge casino, and I have a work apartment in Jefferson Park area, Chicago, 15 minutes from Rivers Casino in Des Plaines.

    Have played for years, just not much, and I do not consider myself experienced. I just played at Aria in Vegas at a financial conference, lost $300 but played probably 12 hours total and was up $550 at one point. I went willing to lose $500 for the trip, so I consider it marginally successful—paying $25 per hour for the entertainment and free drinks. But had I been more intelligent and disciplined I Certainly would have lost less. I considered stopping when I was up, but the last time I played was at the same conference there 4 years ago, so you can see how occasional this has been for me. I figured keep at it.

    I’d like to play more regularly at Rivers, maybe a couple times a month, hopefully on a $5 table, and I won’t play more than a $10 table. Ever. But I’d like to get more disciplined if I can, and was looking for stickies in the beginner and bankroll mgmt forums and do not see them. Are there archived, easy to find beginner resources I can access here? I may just not be any good at searching.

    Thanks much!
     
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  2. Night Attack, May 9, 2019

    Night Attack

    Night Attack Member

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    Welcome aboard.

    Discipline is the hardest thing to maintain. Had you a win goal instead of a "willing to lose $500" goal you may have fared better. Still not a bad result given 12 total hours of play.

    How do you play?
     
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  3. JCinPA, May 9, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    How do I play? Well, considering I have played about every 3-4 years, I'm not sure you'll glean anything from what I've been doing, but I'll describe the last three days of play at the Aria in Las Vegas at a conference. I kind of "know" what I need to do, I'm adept at math and I understand the game mathematically, but I've taken coaching from people I know or don't know at all who I just met at the table.

    I believe in Frank Scoblete's advice to play to minimize the house odds, although it is fun to take a flyer bet once in a while. But when you do one of those, know that it's for fun or entertainment, I'm going to lose more on those in the long-run. But I should drink less and do those a lot less than I do. Now that I have decided to play more often (at The Rivers in Des Plaines, IL), I am going to quit drinking while playing and concentrate more.

    Sunday, 5/5/19, $10 table, started with $500, ended with $1,050 after 3 hours of play, up $550. I was playing pass line plus 1x odds, with a come bet behind that, 1x odds on that point. If I won one, I put the chips in my rack, and put out another come to keep 2 numbers working.If I won another, I put another come bet out, and took 1x odds, so I had 3 numbers working, and I kept 3 going until shooter 7'd out. Two of my conference buddies shot for half an hour each, and I ended up with all number covered, eventually. Good night.

    Monday, 5/6/19, $10 table started with my $1,050, played 4 hours, ended up with $650, so $400 loss. What was different? I was drinking more, having more of a party, learned the place bet, and got suckered into a lot of ATS and hard ways bets by my buddies, even though I "knew" the math was wrong.

    Tuesday, 5/7/19, $10 table, started with my $650, played 6 hours, ended up with $200, so $450 loss. Last night of conference, so I knew I was leaving, and was having a good time, still too much drinking, too many high house percentage bets, even though I "know" the math, I was thinking, heck, this is entertainment, I probably won't do it for another several years, I had a very unserious attitude. For the trip, lost $300 over 13 hours of play, so I paid $23/hour to have a GREAT time, drink some free booze, and ogle the drink girls. All in all, for a guy like me, not bad.

    NOW, though, I've decided that since I work in Chicago alone, and The Rivers is so close, I'm going to go play for maybe a couple hours (3 tops) maybe a couple times a month, not drink, and try to get good at this. I know I CAN do it, because back in 1990 at a 3-month course at Nellis Air Force Base, I won hundreds of dollars playing cheap blackjack, in a very disciplined manner. I can be disciplined when I want to be, it's just that playing only every several years I don't take it seriously, it's a fun entertainment for me, so I'm just kinda screwing around. I feel really stupid for knowing the ATS and hard bets were stupid and doing them anyway, the last several days, though. I want to put a systematic play method in place and get some bankroll discipline and go at this like I did blackjack when I lived in Vegas for 3 months.

    Would appreciate any tips. I know there is a guy who posts here who must be in the area, he did a review on The Rivers, I'll have to look him up and see if he'll tolerate a noob going with him sometime. Love the game, but have decided I don't have a "high roller" personality, but I do like math, and although I don't play enough to be good at it, I love poker. I've decided to get serious and concentrate on making money rather than having an entertainment.

    I'm betting that is conservative play (pass and come bets, for best odds, minimize all else), put winnings in my pocket never to come out again, and leaving when the chips in my rack are gone, reducing the loss or locking in a profit for that session. Not drinking while playing. That sort of thing. I am a conservative guy who can be disciplined, I just have to get my play pattern down.

    -John
     
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  4. random_roller, May 9, 2019

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    Hi JC,

    Welcome to the forum.

    There are 9 casinos in Chicagoland, but except for Majestic Star and Majestic Star II (former Trump Casino) none are within walking distance of another.

    Illinois: 22 hour gaming day (casino closed 2 hours per 24 hour period per state law), no smoking on casino floor (there are designated enclosed smoking rooms)

    Rivers Casino in Des Plaines -- By far the highest revenue grossing casino in the area
    Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin
    Harrah's Casino, Hollywood Casino in Joliet
    Hollywood Casino in Aurora (SW suburb of Chicago)

    Indiana: 24x7 gaming, smoking is permitted on casino floor except in designated "non-smoking areas/tables

    Horseshoe Casino in Hammond -- By far the largest casino in terms of gaming floor, # of table games & slots.
    Ameristar Casino in East Chicago
    Majestic Star & Majestic Star II in Buffington Harbor

    Rivers Casino (Des Plaines, IL) is my home casino. I've been playing there since opening day in July 2011. It has by far the best location of any Chicagoland casino and as a result, it easily has the highest gaming revenue despite its compact size and lack of a national player's card program. Rivers is also one of the very few casinos I have ever been to that has big baccarat tables ($100K limit!).

    You have an easy drive between Jefferson Park and the casino. If you didn't have a car (or don't feel like driving), you could take the Blue Line from Jefferson Park towards O'Hare and get off at Rosemont. Rivers has a shuttle that will take you to/from the Rosemont L stop.

    If you're looking for a $5 craps table at Rivers, your best bet is to get there early when it opens at 9am or around 3am during the week. Rivers typically runs $10 and $15 tables and always has at least one $25 table before midnight, as some big bettors don't like $1 hop bettors slowing down the game. I have seen $5 craps tables late into the afternoon during the week on occasion when I had the day off. I'm usually there a few evenings during the week when it's (relatively) less crowded. On Friday & Saturday night, the craps tables can all be at $25 but the minimum will be lowered at a given table if there are enough open spots that the pit boss wants filled.

    Wednesday is Crab Leg & gift night, so there will be more people playing than, say Monday or Tuesday.

    If you're interested in playing craps at Rivers Casino sometime, let me know.
     
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  5. JCinPA, May 10, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    You’re that guy! :) I read your review of the casino. Thank you. I don’t see me there at 3 am, but I would play $10 tables during the week. Or be there right at 9 am on Saturday. In fact I think I will do that tomorrow (the 11th).

    -John
     
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  6. Night Attack, May 10, 2019

    Night Attack

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    Good report JC.
    You seem like you are level headed and I agree that the drinking has to stop if you are going to get serious. Since you only played every 3-4 years then you played the game the right way. You had a dig and you enjoyed yourself. These high percentage bets will eat away at your profits long term unless you adhere to what James Hall does by letting your hard 6/8 ride three times which he quite often hits and recoups many a small loss from previously. He racks five large while the rest of these here pilgrims rack $135. But since I assume you are not a DI it may be easier said than done.

    So you are a passline and come bettor straight out of the book. Eventually you will learn that the come bet sucks (on this forum) even though it holds the lowest house edge 'cepting of course the DP/DC.

    Here are some tips that I have found have helped my game.

    1. You want to play for up to 3hrs at a time? Big mistake. Time and the table is your enemy, not your friend. I would cut that down to 3 one hour sessions on the day with respite in between.

    2. You need to find a way to qualify the shooter. Betting on every shooter is your path to ruin. Those short hands will kill you.

    3. Develop betting strategies for low house edge bets and you need to have more than one strategy in your kit bag as some will work sometimes and not at other times.

    4. I won't tell you to have a win limit but you should definitely have a loss limit.

    5. Try to learn something out of every loss.

    Good luck and looking forward to some nice wins and trip reports.
     
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  7. JCinPA, May 10, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Thanks, NA, I appreciate the comments.

    No, I'm not a DI, and probably never will be. First, I'm not convinced it works (and I don't really want to be convinced or dissuaded, I've read the other threads on it, and can't add anything intelligent to the conversations), and I simply won't practice it--I have too many other things I like to do with my time--ride my motorcycle, shoot, cook, and I don't do enough of those. So I'll just shake the dice and roll 'em.

    I also don't understand your comment about the hard 6-8, nor do I recognize James Hall. But I'm going to stop betting those things because I'm in the financial world and I am adept at math. I'm not likely to be convinced playing those a "certain way" is going to make them turn in my favor. If I play them it will be for fun, it is gambling, after all. :)

    You are right, I will probably cut play down to a couple hours with a break, and no drinking, that's more realistic.

    About strategies, I'll stick with Pass and Come for now. Although streaks do happen, they never influence the next roll, so I'm not going to change my strategy during a roll, although I may start to increase the numbers covered after pocketing some profit if a shooter is going long.

    On win goals and loss limits, I don't know much about bankroll strategy yet. But what I tend to do now is if I'm up, I'll pocket the excess over my starting amount between shooters and that never comes back out of my pocket. Up to my starting amount, this reduces what I can lose per session. If I pocket still more after that, it guarantees I walk with a profit, and I never stay once what is in the rack (my starting amount) is gone. If I hit that two hour limit, I'll walk, and hopefully have a profit or at least lost less than my starting stake. I could, I suppose, blow right through my starting stake without ever going above it leaving chips to pocket, but I suspect that would be rare. At least I hope it is.

    I'll keep reading around here and maybe learn something a little more sophisticated on both play and bankroll management, but this sounds pretty tight and a good way to start out without getting eaten alive while I gain experience.

    Cheers,

    JC
     
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  8. Night Attack, May 11, 2019

    Night Attack

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    Yeah that James Hall and triple hard 6/8 comment was tongue in cheek. Keep reading these boards and you won't be able to avoid reading about it.

    I wasn't for one second suggesting to change your betting strategy mid roll. More so I was saying you need multiple strategies because if your passline and come bets with odds are taking a bath are you just going to sit there and cut off your nose to spite your face? I would switch to a second tier strategy for a while and then may come back to the primary strategy later.
     
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  9. The Midnight Skulker, May 11, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Amen to that, Bro. The more tricks you have in your bag the better your chance of reaching in and pulling out an actual rabbit. Unfortunately, there will be (as you say) rare times when all you get is rabbit exhaust. In such instances the optimum action is
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. JCinPA, May 11, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Lol, love the movie reference! I would love a backup strategy, and I am surprised there are no “stickies” (that I have found, anyway) with good strategies and bankroll advice for beginners. Do you have any specific posts you would suggest I read? Without stickies I just have to crawl all over the forum, and that is time consuming for sure. And I’m left to evaluate what I’m reading as a noob, too.

    Today is Saturday and I took RR’s advice and went to Rivers early, but not early enough to catch a spot at any of the three $5 tables that were working. I got on the 4th to open at $10, bought in for $300, and played for an hour and was the last $10 shooter before it went to $15, then colored up. I think you guys are right, 1 to 1 1/2 hours is just about perfect, and it is all much clearer when I’m drinking water or coffee. :D

    I ended up positive $160! I was following my strategy exactly, pass and come for a couple wins, then come for a third number and pocket all winnings keeping 3 numbers working until shooter 7’s out. Kept dropping quarters in my pocket as I saw profits over my initial $300, never to come out again, and had five in my pocket when I left the table with $460.

    I’m going to try to ride my motorcycle over there most Saturday mornings early, this is a much better time than playing every 3-4 years in long, marathon sessions, drunk, confused, and stupid. o_O

    In case anyone other than RR plays there, I’ll try to wear my Philly Triumph dealer shirt. Keep an eye out for me. Goofy lookin gray haired dude.

    1BCF8738-67AB-46F7-9406-0DBBAE412677.jpeg
     
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  11. random_roller, May 12, 2019

    random_roller

    random_roller Member

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    JC,

    Did you make it to Rivers Casino Saturday morning?
     
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  12. HornHighBLEVE, May 12, 2019

    HornHighBLEVE

    HornHighBLEVE Member

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    Welcome JCinPA

    I don't consider myself experienced either but have learned a lot to learn here.

    I mostly place bet except on a cool/cold table where I'll employ the come bet; that what if I feel a turn around I'm right there.

    Also I'll risk a green after a 5,6,8 is rolled. Of coarse there's no guarantee but I'm there to gamble so ...why not?

    Best advice like everyone has mentioned ...hit and run.
     
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  13. Night Attack, May 12, 2019

    Night Attack

    Night Attack Member

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    Goofy? No, I wouldn't say goofy at all. Now can you say, I'm a wabbit hunter.
     
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  14. lone irish digit, May 12, 2019

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney,

    I don't think you are a funny looking personage. It's small world since I have a shirt similar to yours and like to ride the big bikes especially to let my goats have good time.



    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]
     
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  15. The Midnight Skulker, May 12, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I really wanted to be a lumberjack, but ended up as the evening Cookie Man.
    John Patrick took copious flak both here and on the old Usenet newsgroup rec.gambling.craps, but IMHO you can do a whole lot worse as a neophyte than read some of his THEORIES and METHODS -- he was quite fond of capitals -- providing you can get past his Dr. Science "I know more than you do" writing style. One of my favorite discussions in The Before Time was with John on the thread "Laying Odds on the Don't - Two Views".

    As for my own ideas I refer you to an article I wrote for Casino City Times...with apologies to forum veterans as I have linked to it before.
     
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  16. JCinPA, May 12, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Thanks for your articles!
     
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  17. JCinPA, May 13, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    #17
  18. JCinPA, May 23, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    OK, I’m sticking around. Avatar and signature set.
     
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  19. The Midnight Skulker, May 23, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

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    My name isn't Shortly. I am offended, so I do not accept your apology.

    NB. I offer many levels of offendeeness; price list available on request. Cash only. Add 10% for shipping and handling, and a flat $30 for resort fee. (Hey, the outfit wasn't cheap, and with the cape, insurance isn't either.)
     
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  20. JCinPA, May 24, 2019

    JCinPA

    JCinPA Member

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    Don't quit your day job! :D
     
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