Is this an example of Dice Control???

Discussion in 'General Craps Discussion' started by TR31, Apr 9, 2017.


  1. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    So which one is you?? Pray tell.
     
    #141
  2. Twelve4s, Apr 23, 2017

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Row 3, brown hat

    And you?
     
    #142
  3. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 24, 2017

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I have not seen, never mind played, a bubble craps machine and so am unable to dispute your report of what appears in such a one's Help section. I was, however, able to find a picture of the Aruze machine's display on VitalVegas.com and included it below. You will note that [2][2], [3][3], [4][4] and [5][5] appear in a section labeled "HARDWAYS" while [1][1] and [6][6] appear in a different section. Not only is this separation the same at every table where I have played, it also suggests that Aruze accepts the standard definition of "hardway" and perhaps designated rolls of 2 and 12 as hardways in its Help section either by mistake or as a shortcut for explaining their hop bet payoffs.

    BubbleCraps.jpg
     
    #143
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  4. betwthelines, Apr 26, 2017

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    this quibbling over whether [1][1] and [6][6] are hardways is just plain silly.

    while true that the standard craps lexicon and layouts includes only [2][2],[3][3],[4][4] and [5][5] as hardways i have fairly frequently heard 2 and 12 referred to as "hard 2" or "hard 12"---by newbies especially...

    is not communicating clear meaning (in any interchange of any sort) the only thing of real importance? indeed when such is the case---except for discussions about hardways apparently---no further exploration is is needed nor put forth...you who get your panties inna bunch over "hard 12" know gawwdam well what is meant by it!!

    i can virtually guarantee you that if you throw inna a chip and say, "hard 2" that 99.9999% of sticks know exactly where to place that chip and that everyone involved knows exactly what the bet is!...snide remarks or lame sarcasm notwithstanding.

    however sincere (and polite) education for newbies by the stick or others would of course be perfectly fine and understandable in such situations .

    tom p

    “...people, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?”
    --rodney king, 1992
    "it is only meanings, my dear watson, only clear meaning that is of concern"
    --tom p, 4-26-2017
     
    #144
  5. badddoin, Apr 26, 2017

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    I dunno about all that now. The fact that a hardway can also roll "easy" notwithstanding, a hardway is not a one-roll bet, unlike the two and the twelve.

    Sure, a newbie may very well call that bet, but it very well may require an explanation from the crew.

    Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, it wouldn't be the first time.
     
    #145
  6. The Midnight Skulker, Apr 26, 2017

    The Midnight Skulker

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    Well, well. I did not anticipate having to visit my weapons locker, but if you insist ...

    I agree with regard to the quibbling. HOWEVER, there's a forest among them trees!

    I lack the interest to research TR31's posting history, but IIRC he/she, as quite a few have done before him/her, arrived with some fanfare, proclaiming his/her expertise, experience, and general worthiness to be worshipped by the unwashed, and by definition less educated, peasants that participate in this forum. Consequently such proclaimants imply, if not explicitly state, that they are burning bushes distributing their posts on tablets.

    Some of us aforementioned peasants actually have the temerity to entertain the notion that we possess at least as much -- and :eek: maybe even more -- knowledge, experience, and insight into and about the game as does the worshipee. Here on the internet the only real evidence we peasants have for comparing the expertise, experience, etc. of proclaimants thereof to our own is statements of fact made by them.

    "...by newbies especially." Does this not suggest that TR31 may not be the ultimate authority on all things -- um -- crapsy?

    Of course you, I, other veterans, and dealers know that "hard 12" means a bet that the next roll will be [6][6]. (BTW I wear bunch-resistant panties, but I appreciate your concern.)

    Good catch. I just blew a half-hour looking for a Crapless Craps layout. I wanted to see if that game had two and twelve as hardway bets in the traditional sense (and what the payouts were). The prop area in the only image I could find --I know I have seen better ones -- does not appear to offer such bets.
     
    #146
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  7. Onautopilot, Apr 26, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    If a 2 & 12 were offered as true hard way bets, and stayed up until resolution, the true odds 6-1, I suspect the casino would make it 5-1.....pretty tough vig. :)
     
    #147
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  8. TDVegas, Apr 26, 2017

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    If you hit the hop screen button on Aruze...it will open up another window with every combination (30-1, 15-1) available as a hop bet.

    The screen may also have a header "hardway 30-1" and "softway 15-1" on top....not 100% sure.

    I would have to check.
     
    #148
  9. DeMango, Apr 26, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    They are, on the crapless table. They do pay 6 to 1 minus vig.

    Otherwise they hop, where they have always hopped, and in the department of horns.
     
    #149
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  10. betwthelines, Apr 26, 2017

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    wtf. you ALL -'pilot, skulker,baddoing- missed the bleeping point!

    there was no fucking "good catch"! ...whether the "hard 12" is offered onna layout or even part of ANY aspect of bank craps, any part of its lexicon or layout or tradition or history or "authority" is COMPLETELY BESIDE THE (my) POINT!, which is

    that you ALL know it, you know it, i know it, the american peoples know it...fuck, even 7s knows it:.

    "hard 12" MEANS "12". specifically a roll of 12 when used in a craps context. (we all know other contexts too for "hard 12"--even "hard 2" i suppose...lol-- but unless i am mistaken even the long island man has backed down to "11" lately...lol...

    -----------------------------------------------------​

    tr31 claimed that aruze uses the term "hard 12" & 2 in some of its literature--and personally i have no reason to doubt this fairly innocent claim--but after he got some, yes, "silly" push-back further explained that that is why he gave some credence to the term...his tone seemed to indicate that absent the aruze stuff he would not have even used the term in the first place...he may have even first used it in a somewhat off-handed, almost "innocent" (lol) manner in the middle of some sentence or another...

    regarding an unrelated matter i suggested to tr31 that perhaps he might brush up a bit on his comprehension skills...i would now do the same to you three bozos.

    try your "A" game next time.

    tom p
    -g. geist: now whose undies are inna bunch?
    --tom p: mine, asshole...


    "it is only meanings, my dear watson, only clear meaning that is of concern"
    --tom p, 4-26-2017
     
    #150
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  11. DeMango, Apr 26, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Have we truly determined that tr31 is not Harley/eagleeye? With a grain of salt should we take any of his posts.
     
    #151
  12. eagleeye2, Apr 26, 2017

    eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    DeMango,

    That post verifies that your ability to comprehend reality is ZERO

    eagleeye2
     
    #152
  13. DeMango, Apr 26, 2017

    DeMango

    DeMango Member

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    Whatever Hardly, whatever.
     
    #153
  14. Onautopilot, Apr 26, 2017

    Onautopilot

    Onautopilot Member

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    When picking nits, it's sometimes difficult to distinguish what is really a nit, and what is something else......often times you have to look behind the thing to see it for what it truly is.

    It's evident that you mistook something else for a nit, and decided to pick it without looking behind it first.

    Yes, why in the world would one argue about calling a 12, a hard 12, they wouldn't, unless there was something else behind the thing.

    Oh, for note......when I was dealing and on stick, and someone threw me a silver dollar and called out "Hard 12", I would repeat the call....."dollar on the HARD 12, and folks, the 12 always comes HARD!".
     
    #154
  15. TDVegas, Apr 26, 2017

    TDVegas

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    I think a normal reaction to a sequence of H8, H8, 12, H10, H10, H10....was NOT that you threw (bubbled) six hardways in a row...

    but rather 2 in a row....then 12....then 3 in a row.

    When I said something to the effect "you threw a total of 5 hardways"....

    "TDV, you village idiot, I threw 6 hardways in a row--can't you see??"----was the response.

    It wasn't until a bit later I figured out what the intent was...
     
    #155
  16. betwthelines, Apr 26, 2017

    betwthelines

    betwthelines Member

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    you said,
    this is simply -patently - irrelevant to my point.

    i am fairly confused then by your post #154, which may be saying---i don't know!---that you were not really trying to be relevant to my point...which of course is fair enough...BUT...

    OTOH in your quoted post above you were 'tailing off (quoted) skulker's post, which was EXPLICITLY directed at my point, and was also decidedly inapt...so it was not at all unreasonable either, along with bad doin's equally beside the point post to discern da t'ree a ya as peas in the same pot...
    o PUH-LEEZ, 'pilot!! get on bored!! there was & has been PLENTY of arguing right on this forum about THAT VERY THING!...look at tdv's post (#155) just above...as he allows, things eventually got "sorta" settled down but not before much back and forth about the "appropriateness"---and, yes even the probity---of calling a 12 a hard 12...months ago the argument raged (actually the "probity" thing more apt to that go 'round) with 7s being particularly adamant on the subject (hence my snide comment in #150, which---whooosh!---obviously went right over your head [but which -> i <- thought was bleeping hilarious...lol])

    i confess that i fail to "get" your (#154) post (completely) but then i believe that i have always admitted that i am not the sharpest tool in the shed...we are most certainly in agreement that i was picking nits but i believe that you were the one looking behind the blood---or the scabs---and seeing something that just isn't there.

    your final noted stick call --clever as it may be-- also affirms that there was no confusion whatsoever about just what the bet was...all meanings were perfectly clear.

    your post quoted at the top was fairly straight forward but decidedly not germane to my point...

    ...is all.

    tom p
     
    #156
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  17. Onautopilot, Apr 26, 2017

    Onautopilot

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    Tom, you need to include the whole sentence when quoting! "Something else behind the thing"

    But no mind, your point is noted, and well put....if that were all there were to it. I have no desire to argue the simple point of the "12' hard stuff further.....but if you look behind the thing and see the "Frauds", "Village Idiot", and other references to myself and TDV by the OP'er, you might see behind the thing a bit clearer.
     
    #157
  18. von duck, Apr 26, 2017

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Or maybe by people, that are "faking" newbie.
     
    #158