Losers at the Craps tables

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by tabletop123, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. tabletop123, Sep 24, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Wow.....the things that are witnessed at a Craps table. Sure, craps is a negative expectation game, but SOME players are just gluttoned for punishment at the tables.

    Allow me to elaborate......We ALL want to win as much $$$$ as possible, whilst at the tables, but it's sad to see players " get ahead" in a session, or turn at the tables, only to give the winnings RIGHT BACK to the Casinos when they could/should have taken down their bets, & " walked" with the win.

    While playing at Murphy on Sunday, I witnessed a guy betting $25 Passline ( on every shooter), $150 in odds, & $150 per number Across.

    The guy would AMAZINGLY get 3-5 hits ( which is pretty rare betting Across ON A SHOOTER), & very rarely regress, or take a " Same bet" hit, & rack it, & " Come down" with a profit.

    The guy would simply press until the Seven Out appeared, which explains to me WHY so many multi-bet players get their nuts clipped.

    They simply leave their money on the table for too long, expecting the Seven NOT to appear for 10-50 rolls.

    Even though it was sad to see NOT ONLY this big bettor losing money by rarely regressing or calling off his bets, but to also see so many OTHER small stakes players getting " ahead" by getting 2-3 hits, & NEVER racking the profits.

    As for Old Top.....I did VERY WELL just by watching others shoot for the moon with their wagering. Winning at Craps isn't as hard as people make it to be.

    Yep.....you're gonna miss out on those Monster hands by pulling your bets down too soon, but for me........I can live with THAT!!

    Continued Success at the tables!!!!
     
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  2. TDVegas, Sep 24, 2019

    TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    Win limits....don't go under. Set a reasonable number and stick to it. It's very easy to argue "house money, no harm".....while player A continues on for the big win.

    If it doesn't work....he walks even Steven.

    Player B...set the limit, didn't go for the big win but was happy to walk with his % win.

    You don't know who was right or wrong until their craps career has ended. I'm more a proponent....for regular play, of just trying to get out with any win. I understand the desire to walk with a big win if the play is infrequent.

    Potato...potatoe.
     
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  3. von duck, Sep 24, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    SHIT! :confused: If a guy tells you he's making consistent small wins, you're all over his ass to raise his bets, why win small, go for their balls! :cool:
     
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  4. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Guerilla style play,hit hard and run, nothing wrong with it
    Sometimes delusions of grandeur are too persuasive for even the most disciplined player
     
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  5. Dave G Ct, Sep 24, 2019

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Hands of plus 30 are the exception not the rule.Have a betting strategy that has the ability to put forth a return with only 8-12 rolls of the dice. Seen it all before - betting across press up every number before thinking of collecting. Seven out leaves it all on the table!
     
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  6. tabletop123, Sep 24, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    8-12 roll hands? Consistent 8-12 roll hands? In MY opinion..THAT is asking a bit much.

    How about learning to make money on the more common 6 roll hands? Become adept at THAT & the game of Craps will treat you just as the Asian Hooker treats the G.I. soldier.......Love you long time baby!!! Lol
     
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  7. KokomoJoe4, Sep 24, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    No excuse for giving big wins back during the same session they are made. This is stupidity at its finest.

    I can see a back and forth session that turns for the good and the player stays too long and ends up losing, but that is different.

    I think the problem has a lot to do with across betting. For the most part, these players just can not take chips off the table. When the seven is staying away and they see a lot of hits, they just keep stacking the winnings, and unfortunately, the seven does have to show.
     
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  8. tabletop123, Sep 24, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Hope things are going well for you, Kokomo. I used to be a All Across bettor. That didn't work out so well for me. Next, I went to being a Inside bettor. Things started working out just a TAD bit better,( Lighter nut Clippings that allowed for bankroll preservation to fight another day).

    Finally, I went to betting only three numbers, occasionally betting the " Inside" bet. Only difference is that I now IMMEDIATELY put myself in either a " break even", or profitable position after getting only one hit. (Regression or pull my bets down altogether)

    Yep, I certainly do miss out on those nice, long hands by pulling my bets too quickly, but I have come to find that ( at least for myself) I end up with consistently SMALLER, profitable hands with much less damage than playing my old way of thinking that I'm gonna get those 3-5 hits most hands.

    Craps is a tough game for those that shoot for the moon. Correction.......it's a down-right loser for those that shoot for the moon.

    One in the hand beats two in the bush!!!!!
     
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  9. The Midnight Skulker, Sep 24, 2019

    The Midnight Skulker

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    I recently adopted this strategy as well, same betting the odd numbered wins and pressing the even numbered wins, but never by more than what I just won. I am willing to accept a smaller profit from a heater than if I had gone for the gusto at the start of it, but in return I do not need as many wins before I am playing with "house money'.
    At my age one in the hand is the best I can hope for.
     
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  10. tabletop123, Sep 25, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Now.....I STILL try to influence the dice, but thinking that JUST BECAUSE I have a table at home, & have practiced tossing dice for over 10 yrs gives me an advantage..........well........it just AINT so!!!!

    I just think that if ANY shooter ( random roller, or Dice Influencer) plays smart, & plays " For keeps", the game of Craps would be a bit more delightful to play.

    Next time you are at a table, just observe how many times that you see a Multi- bet place bettor " get ahead" in a hand, ONLY to relinquish profits, by NEVER regressing, or pulling ALL of their wagers down.

    Now, of course.....this does NOT change a negative expectation game, but it's simply alarming to see SO MANY players that just give profits back to the Casinos when they ALREADY have made profit on a hand.

    Nowadays.....I just want to win, & if the Monster hand DOES develop......BELIEVE ME.....I know how to re-engage. However, in the mean time.....I'm simply gonna CONTINUE to slowly, & carefully PLOD along, profiting small amounts PER HAND, while the BIG BOYS continue to get their bankroll " burnt up", & their Nuts Clipped, JUST BECAUSE they THINK they have an advantage with Dice Influencing, & they want to Press, press, & press their bets to the moon.

    So.........Top.....are you saying that you just couldn't cut the Mustard trying to influence the dice? Nope.....but if you think THAT'S the case....I can live with that, too.

    I just wanna win by ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!!

    Continued Success!!!!!
     
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  11. TDVegas, Sep 25, 2019

    TDVegas

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    Oh, no, no, no....

    My reference is a random game. What you would be referencing to me is my feelings toward a player who has established his game is not random, has established his edge (to some mathematical degree) and has established that he can not just win....but beat the game.

    Yes, I would question the use of red and white chips for that player. After a while, I would question the use of green chips. I would be "all over his ass" to raise his bets and question his desire for "small" wins. You no like money?

    I think it was a 7.9 SRR simulation....maybe 1,000 sessions where 900 of them brought forth a mean profit of close to $500 with a starting $200 bankroll.

    Chip color doesn't matter....unless one gets rubber legs or rubber fingers.

    I will also use a paraphrasing from midnight...."no player, regardless of skill or what has been previously established really knows what the next roll will bring"...so I'm not even sure how any of this is relevant.

    We've been over this stuff 10,000 times. We know where everyone stands on their thinking. Horse. Dead. Beat.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
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  12. tabletop123, Sep 25, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    TD...the problem that I have with Dice Influencing is simply that.....Its NOT enough of an advantage ( cannot speak for others, but for ME....it's NOT) compared to all of the hard work, & practice that a person puts into it.

    Most good shooters say that they just try to avoid the Seven out, & let the numbers fall as they may. Well.....what the fu**k is THAT? How is THAT an advantage, ( maybe for the Iron Cross bettor?) KNOWING that you MUST toss longer than normal hands almost every time in order for THAT to work? Guess what? It just ain't gonna happen!!!

    Sure....these guys say that they can do it MOST times. More than probability dictates, but......they are on Craps forums trying to CONVINCE people......more than they are plying their SAID skill in the Casinos. Something is CERTAINLY wrong with that picture.

    If a so-called Dice Influencer cannot snipe a number/s consistently in 1-4 rolls....Its simply RANDOM, & nothing more.

    The REAL problem with Dice Influencing is that these guys settle for Bullshit results that are no better than random, but SWEAR to ALL that will listen, that they are skilled.

    To worsen matters, when you apply simple logic to prove that they are NOT really influencing the dice......all hell breaks loose, & they call you EVERY name in the book.

    Listen......if you are TRULY skilled at tossing dice......the ONLY two bets that you need to be making are the " Point", & the " Sister" number......NOTHING else.

    Shooting for an eight? Then...Your dice set, & skill SHOULD produce the eight, and/or Six.

    Shooting for a ten? Then....Your dice set SHOULD produce a ten, and/or four, etc.

    THAT'S TRUE Dice Influencing. All of this other " just avoid the Seven, & I might toss a 2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 10, 11, 12, thingy is just PURE bullshit!!!

    Here's something else that these so-called skilled shooters WON'T admit......The ATS bet is a ABSOLUTE horrible bet for the skilled shooter, because if you are TRULY skilled, you're prone to REPEAT a number/s instead of hitting EVERY number on the layout.......ESPECIALLY if you are using the SAME dice set.

    If these guys had a strict Dice Influencing criteria...instead of " my dice looked good in the air"......MOST would fall FLAT on their faces.
    I know, I know, I know.......Old Top is just mad because he can't influence the dice, right?

    Well, guess what? I'm FINALLY back on a winning streak ( 2 straight wins, so the jury is STILL out), & it feels WONDERFUL to Not think it was because I tossed the dice beautifully.

    Moreso, because I have finally accepted that it's SMARTER to take a few hits, lock up the profit, & the Casino CANNOT beat me for THAT particular hand.

    Also, I have come to the realization that wagering on every swinging " Joe" at the table ( just for the sake of gambling) is a sure-fire recipe for disaster.

    I'm in a Good place!!! Life is good......AGAIN!!!! So is Craps! Lol
     
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  13. TDVegas, Sep 25, 2019

    TDVegas

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    Enough of an advantage?

    I just think it's extremely diifficult if not practically (practicality standpoint) impossible to ascertain a percentage advantage from a consistency point of view. I'm also not sure where the point of consistency comes into play. If I pull a 7 SRR over 10 sessions and a 4.5 SRR in session 11....what does that say? Shit happens?

    Why isn't shit happening again in session 12? Presumably it could. Adjustments have been made after session 11? Well, if session 1-10 yielded 7 SRR...adjustments should really not be a part of the equation. It works.

    If you can't tell me specifically why it failed....I question if you can tell me specifically why it succeeded.

    I characterize it as a belief system. Nothing wrong with that. I cannot disprove anything nor would attempt beyond cursory assumptions. Proof would likely fall under the same guidelines.

    To each his own. The days of deep fighting over it are generally in the past. If it brings joy or satisfaction to think it (know it, feel it)....great.
    Awesome!
     
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  14. TDVegas, Sep 25, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I'm still trying to figure out when someone tells me "don't play by the math".....what the F that means?

    I'm also still trying to figure out what "casino math" is....?

    I thought we all get paid $7 on a $6 - 6....that's playing by the math in my book. If there is some exemption where getting paid $8 on a $6 - 6....is in use, then I for one would like to exit "playing by the math" and switching to a place where I "don't play by the math" and get $8 instead.

    This would apply to all and any wagers where "playing by the math" has an "out" status and allows me to get more "bang for my buck" by not playing by the math.

    While my tongue is firmly in my cheek here....I HAVE to assume "don't play by the math" merely means switch your bets to high house edge wagers. How that means you're NOT playing by the math is a head scratcher....but whatever. The bets, all if them are still calculated with the same math.
     
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  15. Bases loaded, Sep 25, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    "Not playing by the casino math" is something said by the DI's on this site.

    It means they are influencing the roll results to the point of altering the probabilities of random dice outcomes.

    I accept their thinking because why else would you play a negative expectation game expecting to win?
     
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  16. Bases loaded, Sep 25, 2019

    Bases loaded

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    DI's are nuts because they think they can influence dice outcomes.

    Randies are nuts because they play the game not being able to influence the dice outcomes.
     
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  17. FredP

    FredP Member

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    That’s Asshall-Speak for bullshit.
     
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  18. tabletop123, Sep 25, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    Lol. THAT about sums things up.
     
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  19. TDVegas, Sep 25, 2019

    TDVegas

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    I originally heard it from a different member.
     
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  20. tabletop123, Sep 25, 2019

    tabletop123

    tabletop123 Member

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    I dunno Fred. Its probably NOT wise to kick a Man when he is down. Keep fighting like a Tiger, James Hall.

    Prayers go out to you, & you're family. Keep your Health " On Axis" just like your Dice Toss.
     
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