Need Feedback: Lay the 10 OR Lay the 4 & 10

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by TR31, Jan 9, 2019.


  1. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    I bet on the 6,7,8 and lay the 10 as a hedge on Aruze Bubble Craps (which is really a slot machine). I win money if my winnings from 6,7,8 are significantly larger than my losses on the 10.

    What I do is complicated since Surveillance is clueless about hedge bettors*. So I make place bets on the 6 & 8 and win on the 7 due to my lay on 10. If a 10 shows up, I lose money. When the machine is in the right mode, I can get 12 (6,7,8) rolls out of 15 consecutive rolls so I make good money.

    My teammates and I are now trying a new strategy of lay 4 & 10 vs just laying the 10. Their argument is simple: the dices CANNOT be 4 & 10 at the same time.

    My argument is the dice controller targets numbers that are 8 or less (you have to find the machine in the right condition) so you would end up losing a ton of bets on the 4.

    I have posted numerous photos of me clocking rolls of 12 or more (6,7,8) in 15 consecutive rolls so getting (6,7,8) is possible once I find the machine in the right condition.

    I would appreciate any constructive feedback or comments on Lay 4 & 10 vs Lay 10.

    Thanks in advance.
    -TR31

    * Surveillance is pretty good at most casino against simple team plays: one bets on pass line, the other guys bets on the Don't Pass Line. Our team breaks the 6,7,8 & Lay on 10 bets amongst two or more machines so the casinos is simply CLUELESS. Our net position and win rate is more important than any one individual's results.
     
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  2. Twelve4s, Jan 10, 2019

    Twelve4s

    Twelve4s Member

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    Can these guys join your team? They’re very talented!

    C892E956-7115-4CB9-90BE-25B0FA94449C.gif
     
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  3. Mssthis1, Jan 10, 2019

    Mssthis1

    Mssthis1 Member

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    One of the locals plays this way. He decides to lay the 4 or 10 using the lost number theory and assuming it is going to continue to not show up.

    it is working so well for him he decided to come out of retirement and now works at his sisters Hawaiian restaurant. This is confusing to me because they aren't Hawaiian.

    To answer your question. Spreading your bets over the 4/10 will reduce session volatility. Once you play it long enough to be a meaningful sample size your results will be indistinguishable.
     
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  4. Dave G Ct, Jan 10, 2019

    Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    Go with either but not both.If you do go with both use Hardway protection
     
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  5. twodicebilly, Jan 10, 2019

    twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    Dave

    I indicated before I dont play the donts, if the table is bad
    enough that you cant play right way bets, there are way to many
    sevens for me to feel good about betting the dont pass or dont come.

    Having said that, there is a guy here that plays the dark side at several
    area casino's, and all he does is lay the 4 and 10 or 4 or 10.

    I dont want to lead you in a wrong direction because I dont understand
    exactly the betting triggers. But what he does is divide the numbers in
    2 groups.....2-6 8-12 and with his chips he keeps track of hits in both
    of those groups and then at some point he lays either 4 or 10, not
    both...I have seen him lay both on the come out.

    My guess is when there are more high numbers hitting he lays the 4.
    Since his approach assumes a random game, he appears to be using
    some direction changes within the normal variance to make betting
    decisions...I have seen lots of dont bet guys, he does better day in and day
    out than others I have watched.

    tdb
     
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  6. von duck, Jan 10, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    :confused: :) "Cake please", we have a winner. :cool: It's TD.
     
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  7. badddoin, Jan 10, 2019

    badddoin

    badddoin Member

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    So these "slot machines" use an RNG so unsophisticated that you and your teammates can find a profitable position to enter? That's effing awesome! You should be very wealthy in no time at all.

    Unfortunately for the rest of us, these dumbass casinos will be forced into bankruptcy. Dammit, I kinda liked gambling .
     
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  8. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    Yes, we make a lot of money from the free slot play offers and mailers.

    The hardest part is finding the machine in the right condition. Most people (especially TD) naively believe we have dice control on every shot. The truth is we make our money in right condition. Before Aruze changed their dice algorithm, it was possible to get as much as 30+ rolls before it left the condition. Now, after the Aruze changes, we are lucky to get 20 rolls in the right condition.

    Aruze is constantly changing its algorithm so it's a non-stop game of cat and mouse of decoding the changes and then beating them. You see, there is an upper limit on the dice RNG because too much force will cause the dice to wear out TOO FAST.
     
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  9. TR31

    TR31 Member

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    Sorry, but you are clueless. You may understand the material in practice but not in theory. The results WILL NOT BE indistinguishable for a dice controller like me.

    I am doing something to effect non-random rolls which CONTRADICTS randoms rolls and thus, by extension refutes indistinguishable results; OR stated another way, random rolls is what gets indistinguishable results.
     
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  10. von duck

    von duck Member

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    Algorithm? :confused: You have absolutely no clue what an "algorithm" is. Decoding the changes? FU. :cool:
     
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  11. TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    The guy is living in his car and you want to argue “algorithms”?

    I think there are more important things to discuss with him. No?

    Furthermore he doesn’t know his ass from his elbow on Aruze bubble craps, algorithms or RNG’s.

    “Make our money in the right condition”...?

    Might as well tell us he waits for the “shuffle machine to be in the right condition” before he bets blackjack.

    Gets funnier each day.
     
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  12. von duck

    von duck Member

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    I agree TD, how do you come up with this stuff. :)
     
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  13. eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    TR31,

    Could you explain this & in layman terms ~ ""You see, there is an upper limit on the dice RNG because too much force will cause the dice to wear out TOO FAST.""

    eagleeye2
     
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  14. lone irish digit, Jan 14, 2019 at 10:20 AM

    lone irish digit

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    This is Barney,

    How about that....Hardley asking Hardley a question is mostest very much similar to the Max Planck asking Barney a question.
     
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