Piano Craps... Play the Numbers 'Tune'

Discussion in 'Advanced Craps' started by SevenOut, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. SevenOut, Feb 24, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    What a dumb way to lose at Craps. Playing all the numbers and expect any shooter to play them like the keys on a Piano.

    Sure... some will say... it works for me! You had better be a well tuned... DI to make this action pay or play anything that resembles a happy tune.

    Only if you have unlimited Bankroll, and even then breaking even is like a Piano missing strings. It will fall flat.

    Who plays all of the numbers? What do you Place per number and do you do any other wagers, one roll or not?

    How does this work? Do you also consistently wager on the Field? Any Craps? Any Seven?

    I scratch my head when I see a player running chips through the Come... just for the 7/11 expectation. Why?

    I need some help in grasping the plan. I cannot write down an elaborate System of juggling numbers, wagers and other wagers to make this work.

    Why do Don't Pass players pile up the chips and just... wait? Why not Lay the Numbers than run them through the Don't Come?

    These are just suggestions. Is there something I have missed? When someone at a Piano cannot find the right key... the same sounds off when a Craps Player is chasing a number like it is a pet frog.
     
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  2. KokomoJoe4, Feb 24, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

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    You know as well as I that there are as many ways to play the game of craps as there are players.

    The BEST I personally have done at the game is when, as a Do player, I made only one bet at a time. For the most part still do, but perhaps the crave for just a bit more excitement at times leads me to make two bets :eek: :eek:

    When on my one bet plan (sounds kind of like the Central Committee of the CCCP Five Year Plan), I go through the Pass or Come precisely to look for a come out winner which will be parlayed, multiple times if it happens.

    Since all bets on the table excepts odds favor the house instead of me, I will take odds on the established point, except when in a come out parlay, which will be played in hope of turning 2x into 4x or 4x into 8x, etc., without the risk of odds.

    How to make money with this play? When ahead, play unlimited parlay if come out winners keep showing consecutively, or place maximum odds when a box number comes out. The hard part is winning a bunch of such wagers in a row, greatly increasing bet size with each winner, but it has happened several times for me.

    More than the Come bet, which for me works fine, what causes me to scratch my head are the players constantly making prop bets, often in conjunction with several or even six place bets. Are they more likely to see more winners than me? Yes. Are they likely to lose more money than me? Yes. Do they have as good of a chance for a big score as me? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    We have all seen all-across players rake in the chips at times, but we have also seen them get wiped out one time after the other until it is time to leave.

    In a negative expectation game of chance, you need to minimize the negatives and you need to play aggressively with winnings until you see a loser.
     
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    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
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  3. von duck, Feb 25, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    Craps, gambling etc. is a passion, or "excessive compulsive", either way, a persons actions, will not conform to any rules of logic. That is what you have missed, plus your last half a dozen AA meetings. :)
     
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  4. SevenOut, Feb 25, 2019

    SevenOut

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    A totally reasonable statement.

    Watch various players at a Craps Table. If one wagering System is NOT working... repeat... repeat and repeat. Hoping that the outcomes change and also hoping that their Bankroll will last until then.

    When we lose or win at a Craps Table Session, it is also a good idea after to cash out to watch the play for a few shooters. Much like investing in Stocks. What goes up... may go down, stay flat or... defy logic.
     
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  5. SevenOut, Feb 25, 2019

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    As to expecting other opinions, discussions are rare on the Forum.

    Personality contests ruin the atmosphere to the point that many possible new Forum Members wander off to other sites that resist such banter. It is this negative stigma that prevents someone with a differing opinion not to express it.

    Gambling is based on getting something for nothing. Personal gain exchanged for luck. When someone is lucky, it is not some electro magnetic field around this persona, but a smart game plan at the Craps Table.

    Only cooks and bakers use a standard recipe on a card.

    Gamblers who believe that gambling has pre determined cycles, needs to become a cook or a baker. They are two separate systems to success.
     
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  6. Liman

    Liman Member

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    Not sure what you mean about running chips thru the come bet?
    I choose to gamble knowing up front the odds are stacked against me
    To state I know I can win is only an asshole statement from someone who will if or already broke
    I choose bets with low house advantages
    It's a personal thing but never think about covering all the numbers

    Some consider this foolish I guess but it's not their money and I feel prop bets are put there for losers

    So if not running a few chips through pass or come or a place bet or two there is little left for me personally at a dice table
     
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  7. KokomoJoe4, Feb 25, 2019

    KokomoJoe4

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    Au contraire my dear baron, I have missed nothing. I stated that I play craps applying my own logic. Yours may differ. Perhaps the nincompoops use none.

    Are you able to supply me with a reasonable excuse for the several missed meetings you have noted?
     
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  8. von duck, Feb 25, 2019

    von duck

    von duck Member

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    That was my mistake there KKJ, it was my intention to respond to one of 7-out's posts, I'll try to redirect it. :oops:
     
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  9. FredP

    FredP Member

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    Yeah, start using your little brain.
    Robot response coming!
     
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  10. von duck, Feb 25, 2019

    von duck

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    Yes Ma'am, ya see, what happened was, TD was throwing me "Server Errors" the whole time I was trying to post that reply. I had to type it over and over till I finally Fked it up. I think he is cyber-bullying me Ma'am. I'll try to do better next time. Your not gonna hit me over the head again, with that, "pointer thing", are you? Ma'am. :eek:
     
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  11. SevenOut, Feb 26, 2019

    SevenOut

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    Liman, explain your statements. A bit generic when you do not get more specific.

    Come Bets. Hit twice to win once. Place Bet, win once and win again. The reason why the COME on the cloth is large is two purposes:

    1- The dealers transact their 'banking' on the Come.
    2- The Come and then the Field are large to encourage players to use them.

    What are bets with low house advantages?

    Come flat wagers become Contract Bets. You can increase the wager afterwards, but cannot remove them until a decision is made. A Seven or a Win.

    If a player makes a $6 Place 6 or 8 wager with $1 Hard 6/8 wager... what is wrong with that? Some risks are worth the gain. There are much higher HA wagers to be made. Like multiple Place Bets. The are accumulative. The more you play, the more you will be paid or pay the table's bank.

    I try to explain myself with more details and less commentary. At least you know where I am coming from and it would be nice to know where someone else has another opinion. There is not right or wrong. When someone loses at a Craps Table, someone else could be winning at the same time.
     
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  12. Liman

    Liman Member

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    I have no problems with place bets other than pso
    I use come and place bets in combo now and then
    I prefer small line bets with large odds

    I'd rather be on 6 and 8 come line for 3 each with 60 or more odds then place 60 each on first roll after point is made
    I don't think any style of betting is wrong but there is a lot more
    Risk involved as the chances of hitting bet goes down of course
    Me I prefer low house advantage bets and I will take 2 or 3 of them
    I don't know why comfort maybe?
    Putting 5 bets down seem excessive one bet is not enough
     
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  13. TDVegas, Feb 26, 2019

    TDVegas

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    Well, misleading. You can't ignore the first part of the wager in any statistical comparison to other bets.

    A come bet wins on a roll of 7 or 11. I think far, far too many people ignore the power of a come or passline bet on come out roll. The win vs. loss advantage is 2 to 1. No other bet in any casino game even comes close to this 1 roll advantage.

    Come out winners happen more often than people think....and they can come in bunches. As Liman also noted, it offers some protection against early 7 outs.

    image.jpeg
     
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
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  14. Liman

    Liman Member

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    unfortunately for me, when I go with betting 60 each 6 and 8, way too many times the shooter 7 out first roll, cost me approx. 180 dollars with pass line bet.
    betting pass and come, when shooter 7 out first roll, it only cost me 50 dollars(lose the odds on pass line)

    its one or another, but I never considered come bet as a two roll bet to win. its more like and I hate to use this word, a hedge against a pso .

    Im trying to be clear and not generic 7 out, I just don't fully understand what you posted the original post.

    Ive never found any of your posts boring or unintelligent, actually enjoy reading what you post.
     
    #14
  15. SevenOut, Feb 26, 2019

    SevenOut

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    TDV post #13... that is some sequence of numbers!

    If I had any reason to want to sit out awhile, this is the moment. Had this been a full sized Craps Table... I would leave and not come back for awhile, if ever. The 6-1 Seven outcomes make you wonder.

    Excellent photo. Bad for the Don't Pass Players.
     
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  16. TDVegas, Feb 26, 2019

    TDVegas

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    It's all relative. Good rolls happen. Bad rolls happen. In this particular case if we examine a pass/odds come bettor with 1 or 2 come bets...he's holding his own.

    Starting at the first blue 7 come out winner on the right.

    Win
    Win
    Win
    Win
    9 point established...
    7 out
    6 point established...
    6 point winner
    6 point established...
    9
    7 out
    Win
    Win
    Win

    Obviously we can can cherry pick results to favor one way or another which is what happened here. In this particular case, the pass come bettor is doing ok. The place bettor, after making wagers after come out (if he goes with multiple place bets)....is likely getting cracked.

    Maybe next couple of hands work differently.

    All strategies work...and they also don't work. Just a note...I see far, far too many place bettors here deride the pass/come/odds in favor of the place bets with the "come bet has to roll twice to win".

    It does not tell the whole picture....that's my only point.

    "It has to roll twice to win"....was cited like a religion here. It was wrong, or at best entirely misleading.
     
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  17. DeMango, Feb 26, 2019

    DeMango

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    Come bets work great against a lousy shooter, that you don’t want to visibly go against. You can bet unit, unit, two units, no odds and break even on a seven out, which happens more than 50% within 4 rolls. A pso wins you that one unit.
     
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  18. von duck, Feb 26, 2019

    von duck

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    We were talking about CRAPS man, this is some kind of GD "SLOT" machine? :confused:
     
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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  19. SevenOut, Feb 26, 2019

    SevenOut

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    Compared to a 14 foot table... you are probably right. No doubt a 14 foot Bubble Craps is in the works....

    Although... I have watched the Roulette Bubble and the Bubble Craps and they sure look random from my experience. Although TDV's photo is an eye opener for me. It would humble a Don't Pass player.

    I have a full sized Roulette wheel on a 'coffee table' in the living room. It is probably easier to time than the one used in the Roulette Bubble... and I still cannot do it, due to the hardware to combat any wheel timers.

    After seeing the outcomes of those oversized dice... I find that Keno is MY Game of Skill.
     
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  20. James Hall, Feb 26, 2019

    James Hall

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    There is a much better way ,
    DON'T BET ON THE LOUSY SHOOTER
     
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