Reality check points - Chicken Feeder or Sharp Shooter?

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by BlackChip, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. BlackChip, Jun 17, 2017

    BlackChip

    BlackChip Member

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    Many people claim to be a DI or sharp shooter of the dice but in reality they are just chicken feeders.

    Chicken Feeders will always lose because they are just random rollers and craps is a negative regression game. They do their best to look the "Dominator" but that's where it ends. They have the stance, the throw, spend 10 seconds setting the dice set and maybe a half ass dice grip, but they have ZERO control of the dice. The worst event that can happen to them is if they have a lucky long throw. Now they are screwed. Now they think they have figured out how to win a craps. Everybody has a couple of long throws eventually.
    Chicken Feeder Check Points
    1. The dice start to separate the moment the leave the grip.
    2. The dice never hit the exact same spot on the table.
    3. The dice never rest a the same spot after a throw. They come to rest all over the table.
    4 . One dice hits before the other HUGH CHECK Point.
    5. Never rolls the same numbers when its their turn to roll. Throws very few repeaters - Meet Mr. Chicken feeder.

    Di or SharpShooter
    1. This freaking animal is extremely RARE! The time and practice most people don't have to invest. More time practicing than playing.
    2. It doesn't matter what their stance, grip, or throw looks like, because they have TOTAL control of the dice.
    4. They set the dice within seconds of receiving them
    3. The dice look like a pair of "Blue Angles" flying formation as they travel the air of the craps table. Seriously! The dice are tight in flight looks like they are glued together.
    4. They could hit a dime on landing. Same spot every freaking time! All day. Both landing at the SAME time.
    5. The BIGGEST check point - You can reach down and pickup both dice with ONE hand after the roll. You don't need a rake to gather them.
    6. They roll seriously abnormal amount of repeaters. The probability of math over the long run doesn't add up. The numbers don't lie.
    7. You are very lucky to know one!!!!!
    Meet the less than 1%

    Its one or the other there is NO in between. Getting luck or Highly skilled. What are you? Chicken Feeder or DI? If you are a DI its highly unlikely you are here.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
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  2. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    As you noted, these rare individuals would not waste time on this forum when they can be making $$$$ at the tables. Your list on how to spot a one percenter omits one crucial detail. Will he or she be betting black chips? Purple chips, yellow chips? Or can we find these rare persons at a $5 table?
     
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  3. Freddyy, Jun 17, 2017

    Freddyy

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    Usually black chips is a good place to start looking. But they are rare.

    Most of them play greens to play longuer.
     
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  4. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    I guess what I'm asking is, what are my chances of finding one of these sharpshooters at Jokers Wild $3 table?
     
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  5. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    I would heartily agree with your post. If one is a DI...#1, he's not wasting his time in here banging the drum.

    I can sum up the equality of random roller (chicken feeder) and DI in one word.

    Pyramids.

    Everything that happens prior to the pyramids is histrionics, IMO. Looks nice. Set, Flight of consistency, glued together, landing spot, etc.

    Neither randy or DI is avoiding the pyramids and the FACT that it will send the dice in a direction, bounce and deflection that neither can predict...kind of destroys the idea of influence or control over outcome, IMO.

    I suspect this is not some scientific analysis...?:)
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  6. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Mmmmm...less than zero?;)
     
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  7. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    How about a $100 table at the Aria?
     
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  8. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    $100 minimum.....?

    tech executive...
    businessman...
    landromat owner....
    Tony Soprano wannabe...

    What? That's me.;)
    Bubble influencer
    You do see my signature?;)
     
    #8
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  9. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    How did you change my quote? Hardley used to do that and he would say, "I fixed it for you."
     
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  10. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    Unfortunately, the most important thing was excluded. Recognizing what each toss is telling you, & making adjustments based on what you are seeing. A true Di does more than just toss magnificently. He/she problem-solves as the roll is continuing. Ya can't just hit the same spot, & think you're gonna toss long hands. Every toss tells you what you should do for the next toss.

    Real Dice Influencers are excellent Dice Readers, & you'd be suprised how many cannot track left/right die in a Casino environment.

    Tossing glued together tosses seems to be the theme of the day, & Unfortunately most aren't making toss by toss adjustments to extend their hand lengths. Sad, but true.

    It is very easy to get "caught up" in the beautiful looking tosses, & loosing track of the fact that EVERY result still tells you what adjustments ( if any) that you should be making on the next toss.

    Bottom line is that successful Dice Tossing is like piecing together a puzzle!
    Just my two cents!
     
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  11. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    sounds good...but I still say you are not thwarting what the pyramids are going to do to both dice...send them in a direction and bounce that cannot be replicated one after the other.

    Use two different color dice as a test. 20 tosses...you will see no consistency of how or where or what those 2 dice do after bouncing off the pyramids.

    Just one extra roll, one extra turn, one extra inch of movement on the felt is going to yield differing results...roll after roll. It has to.

    The only rationalization would be if the back wall was flat...both dice hit and bounce off that flat back wall. You could maybe make an argument that the outside and inside faces have less chance to appear.
     
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  12. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    You seem to forget that you don't have to influence EVERY toss in order to get an edge! Now, I am NOT the one. I have no validated edge. However, you guys want miraculous results from Dice Influencing. NOT gonna happen. No SNIPING numbers, calling your shots, or any of the fairy tale bullshit. Only one extra number per 36 rolls, or one less seven per 36 rolls, gets the money.

    Easy Peasy? Of course not, but very attainable for a gifted few. Get your SRR to 6.3 or above or a SRR of 6 with the Ability to repeat a number/s before the 7, & you're in good shape.

    Now.....repeating numbers with a SRR of only 6, before the hand ending Seven Out! I DO realize it could be categorized as SNIPING.
    Touchy subject, so I won't address it, because frankly, I believe the 6.3 is more attainable than hitting the same number 2-3 times before the seven appears in a hand.

    At any rate, all I am saying is that it doesn't take much influence for a talented tosser to get a edge, & in my opinion, the only edge that you will ever see from a Di will not be more than what I just described!

    Long term SRR's of 7- ?, or whatever? Don't believebelieve it's possible. Put me in the line for Slight Influence on the dice, but NOT enough to make a living. Supplimental income? Yes!

    Now, TD, before you start with the "just increase your bet size, easy Peasy thingy", I say that nervousness WILL/MIGHT affect a person's toss that CAN Influence the dice.

    It's called Pressure. Some welcome, & thrive on pressure......Most don't.

    Now, as a skilled Tennis player, you cannot tell me that playing a Match for $10,000 is the same as playing for $100.

    I am speaking specifically in regards to the pressure to PERFORM only!
     
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  13. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Well..I would look at it this way. Regardless of consistency of toss or mechanics or landing zone (isn't that the intent?)...

    If I gave you one green and one red dice....you will be hard pressed to get me to believe that you can replicate where those two dice end up AFTER bouncing off the pyramids and coming to rest. I don't think anyone can be consistent. Now obviously...what constitutes "consistent" is a subjective idea.....but....

    One extra roll or bounce to the left or right or even straight back from the wall is going to result in a different result. One extra roll is 3/4" of movement.

    3/4" difference is going to get you TOTALLY different results from roll 1 to 2....ands that's just ONE dice. Add in where the second dice lands and eventually rests from roll 1 to 2....now there are two reasons for a random argument.

    Where does simple common sense (my damn eyes and what they see!!) come into the equation as opposed to DI technicalities??
     
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  14. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    What the fu**k? No one is claiming ( at least NOT to MY knowledge) They know where the dice are gonna come to a halt at. Is THAT what you are saying? Listen, you are talking about getting perfect results. Not gonna happen. Who gives a rat's ass if a few tosses go astray?

    You only need MINIMAL amounts of influence IF you are betting correctly. Now, from a sheer mathematical standpoint, the 6/8, passline,,& Come Bet is what the Right side Do should be betting. On the Don't side ...Don't pass, _ Don't Come.

    It's pretty simple from the Math side. The real problem is boredom...for the talented shooter. Who the fuck wants to make only one stinking Bet, or the 6/8 bet only? On the Don't side....one stinking Don't Pass, or Don't Come?

    All the stuff that you see the Guru's preach....Expect to see the direct opposite, whilst watching them play. Inside, Across, outside, hardways, hop bets, etc.

    Show me JUST ONE patient Di with talent that sticks ONLY to the best, least worst ( because every bet carries a negative expectation) bets on the table, & you will see a Di that HAS arrived!

    Okay, speaking of strategy ONLY.....the guys(Di's) that are playing the "boring" game of craps, are PROBABLY the ones that are frequently in the winners circle.

    When I first learned to shoot Pool, I always wanted to spin the Cue Ball. Shoot the extreme Draw Shots. Fire the balls in at Warp Speed. As soon as I let go of the elaborate things.....I started to win.

    Same thing can be said for betting strategies the Crap Tables. Keep it simple. One or two bets at a time is all that you need......If you REALLY possess any tossing skill!
     
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  15. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    You guys better go back,,& read one of Demango's post. ( The best way for a talented tosser to bet). He summed it all up in only one sentence. Kokomo has said it too!
     
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  16. TDVegas, Jun 17, 2017

    TDVegas

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    Because you're not going to get results OTHER than random....unless you can be consistent. If the dice are centimeters off...you are getting random results. That is simple physics....and physics don't lie.

    One extra turn is giving you TOTALLY different results.

    You can't say "consistent set"
    "Consistent mechanics"
    "Consistent toss"
    "Consistent flight"
    "Consistent landing zone"

    And then say "don't worry about consistency of final resting spot"...

    One extra flip of the dice is going to get you a different result (random).
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2017
  17. Twelve4s, Jun 17, 2017

    Twelve4s

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    Talented tosser or TT, for short.
     
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  18. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    Ok.....MY BAD! NOW, we are on the same page. Initially, I thought you were speaking of WHERE the dice ( placement on THE TABLE) end up at. DELIGHTED to know that you are speaking of DIE FACES? ( I hope that is what you mean) Huge difference.

    You are correct. One extra turn, flip, yaw, etc, & it could spell disaster. AGREED!

    Okay, let's take the Math aspect that the Naysayers love to use. Would it be unfair, or unimaginable to think that a skilled tosser could not influence JUST ONE toss in 43?
    It's said that one influenced toss in 43 either makes the game even, or gives the shooter an edge ( can't remember exactly which).

    Is THAT so far fetched to do?
     
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  19. tabletop123, Jun 17, 2017

    tabletop123

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    I will also add that attaining a 6.3 SRR long term is no cake Walk, but I think it's much easier to accomplish than some of these other outrageous claims.

    The bottom line is that you can have a validated edge, & still have losing sessions. I was just reading a story about a famous Card Counter that said he took a absolute beating for a whole Week, & was forced to either take a break, or relegate his betting to $10 bets! Go fogure!
     
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  20. DeMango, Jun 17, 2017

    DeMango

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    Stanford Wong once commented that the back wall was overrated. TD didn't get that memo, before his time.
     
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