So, what are the odds? (Bovada cheating)

Discussion in 'Other Casino Games' started by Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    Here is a screen shot of a Bovada single 0 roulette. I use a particular low-volatility betting method that leaves 31 as a loser for me. Look what Bovada did:

    bovada-cheating-roulette.PNG

    So, what are the odds to have the same number come up 3 times out of 10?

    The Wizard of odds says:
    The probability of getting any number three times out of 10 is 38*10*(1/38)3*(37/38) = 1/2921.

    Do you think Bovada is Cheating?
     
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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  2. Onautopilot, Aug 17, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    Probably. :)
     
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  3. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    My view is that if you, the player, has no legal recourse to go after them if they cheat you, then they will cheat you because you have no legal recourse to go after them.
     
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  4. Twelve4s, Aug 17, 2016

    Twelve4s

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    That's how I feel about tribal casinos. They have no real regulation, because they regulate themselves. They get away with whatever they want. Whenever I go there, I really soak up the dumbshit spray.
     
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  5. random_roller, Aug 17, 2016

    random_roller

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    Competition is good. Potawatomi (Milwaukee, WI) competes against Oneida (Green Bay, WI) and, to a lesser extent, Ho-Chunk (Baraboo, Madison, WI) and the 6 Chicagoland casinos. Four Winds (New Buffalo, MI) competes against Blue Chip (Michigan City, IN), Firekeepers (Battle Creek, MI), the 6 Chicaogland casinos, and the 4 Detroit-area casinos.

    Of course, if you live in an area where there is only 1 casino for miles and miles and miles...you're SOL.
     
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  6. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    That is pretty much what Bob Nersesian says about Tribal casinos as well, he goes further to say that you have no rights what-so-ever when you at a Tribal Casino and that the 'Tribes have a license to steal'.

    What does work in your favor is that the Tribal Casino wants to have a good reputation and avoid any bad press. Given how fast news travels and millions of independent news organizations and blogs that want news, any bad situation that happens at a tribal casino will most likely end up in someones news story.

    I think for the most part that the machine games play the same in a Tribal casino as they do in Vegas, just the pay tables are lower. Tribal casino table games often pay lower than Vegas for the same wins, and with craps it is double for the 2 and 12 and pay the Vig on the Buy.

    I find winning much easier in Vegas than at the Tribal casino, however if you want to learn to keep your play tight well playing in a Tribal casino will teach you to do just that.
     
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  7. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    Right now, that what I got - hundreds of miles between tribal casinos. We players are screwed no matter where we go. That will change here spring 2017 when Ilani opens up!
     
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  8. wonko33, Aug 17, 2016

    wonko33

    wonko33 Member

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    I looked it up after you mentioned it before, pretty excited. My wife and our casino friends are too, so probably a few trips planned
     
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  9. random_roller, Aug 17, 2016

    random_roller

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    How much of a drive do you currently have to get to the closest casino?

    How close will Ilani be to where you're located?

    Grand Victoria Casino in Elgin used to be the top-grossing casino in Chicagoland. Then came the 1-2 punch of Horseshoe Hammond opening its new, huge facility in 2008 and then Rivers Casino opening in 2011. GV now offers some decent promotions, but Rivers and Horseshoe are easier to get to from where I live.

    Hopefully the opening of Ilani will provide some much-needed competition to the marketplace in your area.
     
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  10. wonko33, Aug 17, 2016

    wonko33

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    I am not very familiar with Oregon Casino but I think Tulalip is the biggest one in WA. It is about 2-3 Hour north of where Ilani will be. Besides that it is all smaller tribal one (well they are all tribal here) I don't like Tulalip, dealers are under trained to say the least.
     
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  11. random_roller, Aug 17, 2016

    random_roller

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    I stopped by Tulalip in 2012 and also Quil Ceda Creek Nightclub & Casino, among others on my way to Vancouver, BC. My last night in the area, I stayed at a hotel close to SeaTac and made the trek to Muckleshoot Casino (Auburn, WA). That is good size casino, too. Seems to be quite a few Native American casinos in the Pacific Northwest, at least in Washington. Guess you gotta stay indoors when it's raining all the time.
     
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  12. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    One Hour and Ten minutes from Portland Oregon going West by south-west with no traffic. With traffic it is 2 hours or more.
    Roughly 35 minutes away with no traffic, and an hour with traffic.

    We hope that Ilani will spur competition between the tribal casinos. Here is an article that came out yesterday about the impact Ilani will have:

    Grand Ronde could lose 41 percent of revenue to new casino

    Grand Ronde AKA Spirit Mountain, Chinook Winds (Lincoln City, Oregon coast), and Lucky Eagle (up in Rochester Washington) are the most likely to feel the impact of Ilani. They can easily keep the players coming by offering better games, higher payouts, and lucrative promotions as in much like Vegas casinos do to keep players coming rather than to the casino down the road. However, the big cry baby is not the Tribal Casinos but the State Lottery who claims that people won't play their pathetically bad 91% return Video Poker/slots terminals and rather play at the Ilani.


     
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  13. Onautopilot, Aug 17, 2016

    Onautopilot

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    I drove that route last time in Portland, it was under construction.....long delays, and I didn't like the casino at all. But I always hit 7 feathers on I-5 coming and going. I like that casino, for craps and VP, and decent food, plus they have RV parking.
     
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  14. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 17, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    I have been to Seven Feathers (passing though on the way to Vegas and took a break there) but never played there. 14-foot craps table and decent enough VP. The non-smoking part of the casino is completely isolated and not just some random section designated as non-smoking.
     
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  15. Grizzoola, Aug 17, 2016

    Grizzoola

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    Well, I'll defend one tribal casino: Northern Quest in Spokane, WA, run by the Kalispel tribe. Played craps there for about 3 years. Won some, lost some, very professional crew. Only one table, but active daily. Great buffet. If you're ever in the area, be sure to stop in. BTW, another casino going in in Spokane. Unclear if tribal or not, but think it is. Tony Bennett performed there couple yrs. ago. Loved his performance.
     
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  16. random_roller, Aug 17, 2016

    random_roller

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    Yeah, the other casinos in the area are probably going to take a big revenue hit once Ilani opens, unless they are affiliated with a national player reward program, in which case they'll take a smaller hit. It's going to be much more convenient for some players such as yourself to make the drive to Ilani. That alone will manifest itself in the form of lost revenue for the "nearby" existing casinos.
     
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  17. Craps Poopshoot, Aug 18, 2016

    Craps Poopshoot

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    The Washington State casinos are all Tribal. They however are hobbled due to a compact made with the State, so no class 3 video poker. Washington State Lottery runs class 2 video poker all over the state, so they did not want the tribes to do an end-run on them. The tribal casinos that have video poker, it is class 2 games - no better than scratch offs and no skill required to play. Here is a draft of the compact with Ilani - If you read it, it really is just a bribe and kickback agreement where the State will vet the employees and not muck with the casino operations for a set schedules of payments.

    it is my view that the State extortion of the Tribal casinos keeps them from becoming the power-houses that they could be. It is a form of oppression and protectionism by the State where they want to protect their cash-cow "the State lottery and the VLT's" that nobody wants to play, and they want the tribes to pay for the privilege of the state allowing people to come to their casino. Years ago, the Emerald Queen casino in Tacoma had a rift with the State, so the State decided to do road work at the only two entrances to the casino. yeah, that is how it goes down! Tribes can own a casino, but the State can decide if people can actually get to it.

    The low limits imposed by the State on these Casinos does have a significant impact on them, where high rollers are forced to go to Vegas if they want the action they seek. The low limits also hurt the players too, for there have been a few times I have hit the ceiling with pressing up my bets on a hot roll. The arguments is that the Tribes and the State does not want these casinos to become like Vegas casinos, with the Vegas crime and all the problems Vegas has - but on the otherhand the Tribes and the State want the money stream that Vegas has. Can't have it both ways!
     
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  18. wonko33, Aug 18, 2016

    wonko33

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    Craps, can you elaborate on the VP at Ilani? Did they work a deal to get real VP?
     
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  19. wonko33, Aug 18, 2016

    wonko33

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    I like Mucleshoot as well. There is a non-smoking area , it is not closed off but the 2 hallways that connect it to the smoking area have smart ventilation. Even my wife who is very "sensitive" to cigarette smoke says it's great. Only problem is some of the restaurants are on the smoking side but not craps!!!!

    Dealers have always been really nice there too, only problem for me is that I tend to go north more often then south so it is out of the way a little.


    PS: sorry we've hijacked your Bovada thread Poops, IMO yes it is pretty fishy about the 31 hitting so much
     
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  20. random_roller, Aug 18, 2016

    random_roller

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    And despite such restrictions, the various tribes in that part of the US have been quite willing to negotiate compacts with the State of Washington. Native American casinos have been very innovative in working within the confines of Class II gaming for EGDs. Who would have thought bingo would be so popular?

    As for the state trying to protect its interests, I suspect part of that has to do with budgets & jobs. Same thing happens in IT in state government. The state CIOs want to operate their own IT infrastructure even at a significantly higher than market cost to other state agencies in order to maintain their budget and staffing levels.
     
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