Let's put up a thread about craps rather than the virus, which i hope will soon . The only sure thing about craps is that the math of the game defines a minimum house edge that exists as a result of the rules of the game. This applies to all players, including so-called advantage players, so-called DI's, and the rest of us, usually referred to in derogatory terms like chicken feeders, random rollers or assholes. No matter how the game is played, the player is very likely to be underdog to the house. It is not impossible to be on an even footing with the house, but don't count on it. Tables offering "free" fours and tens, which are paid 2:1, where no vigorish is charged on these wagers qualify, as do tables with Field paying triple on both 2 and 12. Good luck finding these tables, although sc AP's and sc DI's have no need to rely on luck. Please remember that to keep this even game with the house, you can make no bet(s) other than those that are paid fairly. Obviously, if and ain't showing, you can and will still lose your ass. A SINGLE P, C, DP or DC has the player with a 49.3% chance to win his wager. This is a 1.41% house advanatge. If you make two such bets, odds against doubles. Each of these four basic wagers is a potential two part wager, which might or might not resolve on the come out roll. This is how and why these bets differ from, and are better than wagers which are self selected, UNLESS you are playing at a location where outsides can be bought and vig charged only on the win, where vig payment can be further diluted by house rules. Unless you can find tables with buy rules described above, place bettors pay attention, especially those of you who will "show" that place bets pay better than come bets "because come bets require two hits before they are paid, and I collect twice on my place bet." Our potential two part line bet has us at 1.4% disadvantage. Place and buy bets are at 1.52% at their best on the 6 and 8, at -4.0% on the 5 and 9, and at -6.7% on the 4 and 10. Odds can be taken or layed on the line bets which, since paid fairly, has the effect of decreasing house advantage even farther. True, odds do not increase our chances of winning, because when our bets lose, we are losing more money with the use of the odds bet. Chances of winning are defined in the dice and are identical for the line bettor and the place bettor - 1:2 against on the outside, 2:3 against on the odds and 5:6 against on the insides. My long-standing idea: if every bet made increases the odds against AND enables you to lose more money, why make more than one bet?