Surviving on a $13,000 Bankroll for the Casual Craps Player

Discussion in 'Bankroll Management' started by SevenOut, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. SevenOut, Jan 14, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Thankyou 7Craps for the following Post:

    Good news travels fast
    or is that bad news that travels fast
    Another one...
    sounds like “biggins”:

    FORMAL CHALLENGE: NEW BLACKJACK & CRAPS SYSTEM WILL WIN 1K/DAILY FOR MIN 30 SESSIONS
    I think I read somewhere they play with you with their bankroll and you give them 50% of your winnings or.

    “I have formulated a betting system and modified basic strategy system for blackjack & craps. And for the record, it is not for sale.

    However, administrator permitting, I would like to make a challenge to any player who can afford this:

    I challenge any blackjack or craps player to play along with me with a 13k bankroll for 30 sessions. I am VERY confident we will win 1k per session minimum.

    I would like to have the player post the results of each of the 30 sessions on this forum to prove me right or wrong. Each session will be under 2 hours. I will put up the entire 13K bankroll BUT give the player the opportunity to do the same at a 50/50 split of earnings.”

    Sounds great to me
    I am waiting for the IPO on this one.
    ************************************

    (I should warn you in advance before your read my essay... I am not seriously thinking this is a good idea. I do not even think it is an idea. Take what I am saying for a close look at a hustler's dream of finding someone with $13,000 that STUPID enought to believe this."

    I have to agree with 7Craps. I cannot wait to buy in for $13,000 and split the profits 50%/50% and buy into the IPO with the proceeds. I think when your 50% of profit and 100% of bankrool is missing due to those nasty, unpredictable dice... the only trigger one might consider at this point is not one on a Craps Table System. Why even bother splitting? IF you, as the instructor HAVE YOUR OWN $13,000 to plunk down in front of a startled Boxman... who needs friends or partners? Have we all entered a Time Warp back to the back alley hucksters and dice swapping during a game? Or must the player with the bankroll be blind folded while playing for the... first winnings.

    I would estimate that 80% of Craps players are like myself... bankroll at a single game under $500. There are Craps Players and then just CARP, not that carp are not a fish that do not give up a fight when hooked. ( I seem to be on a fly fishing and fishing mentality lately. Spring must be coming...)

    Anybody with $3,000, $5,000 or $13,000 to expose to the House Percentage at a Craps Table... are not going to be walked up to a table, buy in and agree to a 50%/50% share of profits, taking all the risk of... a bad night at the CARP Table. This story just gets better by those who have been following the scattered posts in the last couple of days.

    All purported "winning" systems have one thing in common... to beat the adverse house percentage built into ALL table games and anything plugged into the electrical grid... even if it is from wind turbines or solar sources. And as Mrsmooth presented in his long list of good points on an earlier posting... did not include the most important part of his presentation... the "triggers" for play. It is obvious Mrsmooth is well rounded in the mathematics of Craps and the built in House Percentages. To take this knowledge and discover a way to not only negate the House Percentage, but present claims to have discovered how to manipulate the game for a Player's Percentage for chronic winning is a stretch.

    I have an adverse natural curiosity to ALL and ANY claims to improve my chances to leave as a winner at a Casino. Not that ALL claims are 100% spurious. Even having a photographic memory of a 5 to 8 deck Blackjack shoe of all cards played, does not prevent the Dealer getting the hand you were expecting. Controlling the result of a pair of dice is like herding cats into a pen. If the Boxman even suspects you might have the "talent"... you are shown the door and not necessarily the front entrance.

    I play Craps when in the VICINITY of a Casino... and do not travel with the intent to play at a Casino. I will never be able to provide a constant, guaranteed, stream of income at a Craps Table, unless losing to the House provides an income stream to the dealers, who well deserve to be paid a decent wage. I play a Craps game to maximize my exposure and try to minimize my exposure to the House Percentage in my Hit and Run play. All of us who have a handle on the statistical side of Craps can come up with a game, a system or game action that you are comfortable and very viable. When you must take classes to "improve" your chances... the radar begins tracking a big carnivore heading my direction in the deep woods, after serving a big bacon breakfast with eggs.

    When I read some of the Topic headings, I believe many individuals posting the question, should study the game, any Casino game, from the simple mathematical side first for a reality check... and then get some taste of bad advice. It is these fish hatchery "trout" that are being tossed the artificial fly by well schooled patrons of the game and bite the hook and barb. The long term Craps players do have a handle on the games they play, and take the risk of leaving empty handed. If there were no risk... nobody would offer the game and there is no sport in playing against the "rigged game".

    Have you experienced an offer to improve your Craps game? How did it work out? Did it raise you confidence level of playing? Did you find it something you would never pass onto another player?
     
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  2. SevenOut, Jan 15, 2013

    SevenOut

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    OK. I see a total lack of interest in the $13,000 bankroll thread.

    Lets break the ice and drop our baited lines to where the fish are biting...

    Lets make it $12,999.99 to catch most of the followers of the Craps Forum. I understand that $13,000 is the breaking point for most of the experienced Craps players, so by tossing out a cent "for the Boys dealing at the table" is a gesture that will reap big rewards in the future.

    Please... no body hold back their game strategy due to the lower bankroll.

    What would I do with the $12,999.99 bank roll? First... I would have to find some sucker with $13,000 and let him leave with the cent that I was going to tip the Boys, and Girl in some cases. The chips I stuffed into my empty pockets, now full, would be used to fund a Craps Degenerate's Reunion party, in the alley behind Uncle Joey's Tiki Lounge, Bar and micro Casino and furniture outlet, just off the Strip. There will be a special Craps game, using the finest layout that $12 can buy and my... special dice to make the games short... and sweet.

    If you have any serious input to this Thread... save it. Nobody seems to care what one would do with the cent, nor the $12,999.99. In a couple years from now, that will not be enough to buy one chip at Boobies Fast Chicken Fry and Craps outlet.
     
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  3. Chingy711, Jan 15, 2013

    Chingy711

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    Dear Mr SevenOut,

    How could you be so heartless? Yes it has been a little confusing, but there are still a few that argue the
    world is flat! True the bankroll requirements vary based on the date of publishing, from $10,000 down to
    $5,000 and now with good promotions I hear it's up the $13,000. You just don't understand the true "power of triggers. There's gossip I hear amongst the Vegas Pros concerning Mr. BigInPockets, Mr. Be(h)OnGuard and the now famous Mr. SoSmoothie, they have a well tested "TRIGGER" for the 7 or 11. This is how it's applied, any time the sucker is losing faith, whip out the Bring'emBackTrigger.
    Tell the sucker/fool the stars have aligned and the Craps Gods are telling us that it is time for the mandatory $100 7/11 bet.
    This is a time tested bet and only used by craps professionals around the world, it's never shared with the amateur or degenerates.
    The greatest part of this trigger is that when it hits the pay-off is way beyond the chip value, for now the sucker/fool believes he has
    drank from the Holy Grail. SevenOut, be fair, step up to the rail, there's plenty of interest. I've known a lot of wiseguys and they
    love 'triggers and bones", who knows maybe BigInPockets crew would like to share triggers with a few Good Fellows.
    Just think of the movie this could be. It could be called, "SMOOTH TRIGGERS", directed by the SevenOut Gang! That's me and you Mr SevenOut.!!!! By the way, I hear there's a guy of this forum in negotiations concerning the Brooklyn Bridge, BigInPockets
    is waiting for the trigger to seal the deal. You can't make this shit up people! Hit the dam back board, don't make me pull the trigger!
     
    #3
  4. SevenOut, Jan 22, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I do hope that most viewers of this thread, recognize my second post was... dice in cheek. Keeping some loaded dice tucked away in your cheeks, like a gopher hoarding acorns can cause someone to pull the "trigger" and would bring no salvation when your pockets are empty.

    Rather than use the term "trigger", I would substitute "tracking". Keeping track of your wins and losses while playing is a sure way to be a winner more than 50% of the time. When your... tracking... is in the positive... increase your bets. When your bankroll has been getting shorted... hang in there for the potential long rolls and lots of good numbers before a Front Line Winner.

    I would never consider being a professional Craps Player, no more than a 30 year Craps Dealer working the PM to AM shift. One professional will be in the poor House and the other getting tired of working for the House. Having an imagination and $5,000 or $10,000 cash to play with? Start a home business and use the profits to throw at the Craps Table. Then you will always be a winner.

    Develop a game strategy and "track it".
    Mark your chips in your rack so at a glance you know if you are losing, holding steady or winning "tracking".
    Watch other players and "track" their success or failure of their game strategy.
    If you want to B$%#S%$& with the dealer(s), you deserve to leave the Casino as a loser. Keep tracking your bets.
    By "tracking" your various game(s) you will eventually find a compromise between conservative and risky action.
    For some reason in the Craps World there seem to be more than One Sucker Born Every Minute... maybe two or three... track these guys as well.

    Remember. Disregard the buy in dollar amount for house chips. The chips are colored and represent a dollar value... ONLY when you quit and cash in at the Cashier. Your $12 bets on the 6 and 8 are no different than the $120 stack of chips to someone else. Just move the decimal. If you do not feel any remorse losing your $200 or $300 bankroll, then step up your bets. If you do feel remorse when your bankroll is lost, you are betting what makes you enjoy the risk and earning any winnings.

    A loser of $12,999.99 is still a loser, triggers or tracking... If you are WINNING... a $200 bankroll may as well be $2000. When you are losing with a $200 bankroll... the player with the $2000 bankroll can hold out until... if... possibly... a hot streak comes to the table. That is the only difference I find in bankrolls. It does not guarantee any winnings, just being able to hang in there for that ... roll.

    Much like these people wanting to make the big bucks panning gold in the Rocky Mountains or Sierra Nevada Mountains. The money to be made is in the equipment being sold to these "prospectors". The gold panners leave with an aching back. Better... get a good metal detector and hit the swimming beaches at a lake. Not the sand on the beach... this is for the amateurs. Get into the water at the end of the season and go for the lost rings and jewelry. That is where the "gold" is to be found. Then sell this gold to make bankroll at the Casino. At least it is someone else's loss is making your bankroll. Maybe then it can be a loser/winner situation. Or, if I predict correctly... loser/loser situation, but it was fun finding your bankroll and not as disappointing losing someone else's losses at the beach.
     
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  5. goatcabin, Jan 23, 2013

    goatcabin

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    Whatever happened to Mr. Smooth?
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
     
    #5
  6. SevenOut, Nov 21, 2013

    SevenOut

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    I have been saving every bit of loose change I find in parking lots and still have a way to go for the $13,000 bankroll. Well, even a $3.00 bankroll not counting Canadian and a 100 yen Japanese coin that looked like a quarter... but is worth $1.01! Life is good when your eyes are still good enough to spot a bright copper coated cent under some car at Costco.

    Now that I am awake and have all of our clocks, watches, ovens, vehicles and anything else with a time... turned back an hour... I feel much better and noticed there are two of these $13,000 bankroll threads competing with one another.

    If you are losing and play Craps like some people drive in Los Angeles... I do not care how much your bankroll might be. You can tail gate me within inches and I am not budging from $200 to $300 as a bankroll at a Craps Table. The only time I will carry a bankroll of more than $300 is at a good Flea Market, where I can buy fenced goods stolen the week before the sale. When you can buy a 1957 Thunderbird for $300... you know this guy has not clue what his grandmother's car is worth!

    Now back to sober Craps conversation.

    The amount of your bankroll does not make any difference in your odds of winning or losing at the Craps Table. None at all. If you game is poorly thought out and your pressing up or cutting back philosophy is bad... you need more than $13,000. You need a printing machine in the trunk of your rusted out 1974 Toyota 4 banger. A bankroll must be compatible with your Play Action. For us in the Rocky Mountain region from New Mexico to Colorado, there are plenty of $5.00 table minimum Craps games. Those of you who worship the tables everywhere else... $10, $25... you must bump that bankroll up to double, maybe even triple to play my Full Monte Craps System. That I understand. But you also need to bump up your minimum bets by the same proportions for an aggressive game plan.

    Damn right it gives you some insecurity to be playing $30 on a 6 or 8 Place Bet, when I begin with $12 and press up when winning. Are you at the Craps Table to be "safe"? If you are, let your wife go shopping in the Casino Mall for a purse... for $1500 a whack. Of course it seems crazy... that is why you should DO IT. Time is not your friend at the table. On the parallel universe of the $13,000 Bankroll threads running right now... are you playing for play time? Or are you playing to win? You have to make that decision, not someone like myself who has no interest at all how slow or fast you lose... or win playing Craps. I do not lay awake at night worrying about the $600 you lost last weekend. I am not envious when you won $1200. I do not even ask for 50% of your winnings.

    Craps is a Casino game that requires a focus. Not on your buddy's game... but your own. Losing together might be comforting... but not smart game plans.

    Play Craps for one of these two reasons:

    (1) To play a long time and have a good time after losing by working overtime and holidays to make your bankroll back!

    (2) To play to win with a well thought out game system and QUIT when the dice begin to take back any gains!

    (3) For those who just cannot decide what color shirt to wear while changing the oil in your truck... buy some books about Craps and when you understand that there is NO 100% WINNING METHOD DISCOVERED... yet, go back to (1) or (2). All experienced Craps Players at the Craps Table... are watching you... YOU. They are as insecure as yourself in your "new system" being tested out. They spot a Craps Player with no clue what they are doing... immediately! I see them all of the time. Next week they are doing some other awkward and non workable system. Keep It Simple SMART. It is not Keep It Simple Stupid... as I had mixed them on the Forum a year or so ago.

    I do enjoy playing Craps. I like the banter among the players and dealers. I like to WIN more often than I lose. I want to play with a table of Craps educated players taking smart risks with flexible table action. It is one of the more entertaining activities at a Casino... if there are any others. Play smart. You are being judged by the dealers and fellow players. I know... you do not give any of that any thought. That is fine. Good for you. Someone needs to cover the table's overhead and we love you for it!
     
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  7. SevenOut, Nov 23, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Any "System" requiring a MINIMUM Bankroll at a friendly establishment, i. e. Casino Gambling, you will probably lose over your lifetime $13,000. If you are the mark and easily convinced there is "easy money to be made"... maybe a good six hours to have your whistle and clock cleaned of the dusty 13 Grand saved up for just such a wonderful opportunity is closer to reality!

    The major market areas for the Casino Trade and $10 and $25 table minimums... you will need all of $13,000 to work the tables. But spread it around for a number of years...decades. Be frugal. It will be nice when the competition gets the table minimums down at some Casino's to $5 and hiked up to $10 after the Sun sets... You do realize, well at one time, if you were playing at the table at $5 minimum bets and the clock chimes, the table board is flipped over to the $10 minimum... you are grandfathered at $5. If you play the "new" table minimum... once... you are now grandfathered OUT and stuck with the $10 minimum rules. Ask the dealers to confirm this.

    Most of my effort on this Topic has to been to make players aware of the hustler selling or offering a system that requires a very large bankroll or up front money to "learn the strategy". Oh yeah... you will "learn the strategy" much like a child rapist sent to Prison will learn that twenty years is more than playing cards, watching television and having three warm meals a day... with the guys. These Craps Instructors who promise and promote should be listened to very closely. Take the handout and read each WORD closely. There is always a disclaimer. Words like should, could, might, has happened... are the hustler's disclaimer terminology. Just be aware of even books are written with the "live ones" in mind. If it sounds too good to be true... you know how that goes.

    Bankrolls are only needed to get yourself through a losing spell. It could continue all day and go on for the rest of your life. Lucky for us, Craps is not like marrying the wrong woman for the wrong reasons. I could go on that aspect of "rest of your life" but Craps is much easier to discuss. We are lucky out in the Rockies and Midwest where $5 tables are common and everywhere to be found. I can stick it out with a $200/$300 bankroll and wait for that BIG WAVE to come in and surf my way to profits. Some times $200 is not even enough to survive 15 minutes of losing and I get pulled under by the Big Kanhuna and hope to have better luck next time.

    Bankrolls for the winning Craps Player offers the player to increase bets on the expectation of better returns and $200/$300 is more than enough. If... you are losing... you are just making sure that you do not get carried away and dip into the bus fare to return home. There are some good Topics on Bankroll Management and should be read. This is just as important as having a workable SYSTEM of PLAY.

    You heard the joke about the big time Gambler coming into Las Vegas with a $120,000 Mercedes and leaving town in a $650,000 Greyhound Bus? Naw.... that could never happen to anyone on this Forum... could it?
     
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  8. SevenOut, Mar 2, 2014

    SevenOut

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    I think this is one of those Master Piece Threads that has gone to waste.

    Gone to waste as I was not expanding it into 289 pages, double spaced with a cool looking glossy cover of some hot chicks leaning over the Craps Table's chip rack to place some bets and tossing some "3 inch dice".

    No. It would not sell, but the cover would bring a few live ones.

    Have you ever wondered why the Casino dealers cannot play in their own Casino? Well the obvious ones are just human nature figuring there is a good "fix" with a buddy at a table. Yeah... there is. About 10 years with your own cell, meals provided and Slughouse Johnson your room mate who uses your nose as a punching bag.

    The most important is that the Casino does not want their employees LOSING their pay check AT THEIR EMPLOYER'S CASINO. Trust me, this is true. But... you say. Dealers are smart. They know how to play the games they deal. They could make a... kiLLLLLLLLING.

    If you believe this last paragraph... then I have a jacket full of How to Beat (fill in the blank).

    Oh, do any of you own a $650,000 Greyhound Bus? That would be a great bankroll......
     
    #8
  9. basicstrategy777, Mar 3, 2014

    basicstrategy777

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    How does that line go............" I came to this casino in a 75,000 dollar cadillac, and I'm goin' home in a 650,000 dollar bus."

    777
     
    #9
  10. SevenOut, Mar 3, 2014

    SevenOut

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    777... worst yet. Came to the Casino in a $650,000 bus and going home in a "used" $75,000 Cadillac.
     
    #10
  11. SevenOut, May 16, 2014

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    I have taken a deep breath and forgot where the original genius wanting to work out a 50%-50% split of "any" winnings, with any slug that could bring $13,000 to the table... for "special instructions". The thread must exist, as I read it and am now too weary that I may find it again and discover a post from someone claiming... IT WORKED FOR ME!!!

    Anyone who has survived this thread to the end and reading Reply #11, I am offering a "free bit of the 50% split thought in a positive".

    The chip rack on a Craps Table is designed to hold more chips than most of us will be in possession. Winning or buying in for chips. Just $5 and $25 chips in the rack would total $15,000 with an equal amount of both colors... maybe more if you take up the space for two players. ...and with that much money in your chip rack, the Boxman would enthusiastically MOVE the $45 Bankroll Don't Player under the table or upon a comfortable closed Blackjack table, making room for a "Whale of a Sucker" as you would be perceived by the Pit Crew.

    Considering Craps Theory can be all make believe, anyways, you are obviously curious as to what in Hell is being discussed in this Thread, you have already vested some of your precious time to get to this point and I will get to my point, if there ever was one point to be made, this will be it.

    (1) the one whole point
    The majority of players at a Craps Table have oversized egos. So oversized an ego, they buy in for $1000 and when they have lost $100... they color up and go home wondering if the wife is going to kick his rolling hills of Kentucky when she finds out he forgot to bring the milk and bread from his trip to the... grocery store.

    The goal of this Thread is how NEVER leave a Craps Table as a 100% loser. Maybe a 99% loser, but never 100%.

    While playing YOU be the Instructor AND the Player. Play with the bankroll you can afford to lose. You are playing to win by percentage of bankroll, not a Dollar Chip Count. You know... 20% of $200 is $40 of expected winnings, not $2,000 expected winnings before you quit. If you win $40 in 5 minutes or two hours, get your Appalachians off the table. But, that ego is getting in the way, so do it this way.

    EVERY WIN, you put half of it into your pocket and round the 50% up to be even a smarter Craps Player. EVERY TIME THE DICE LOSE YOUR WAGERS during a shooter's game... chips come out of your chip rack... only the chip rack, never your pocket or wallet.

    Alright... this can be complicated for some players. I will go over this much S L O W..E.......R.

    When you are winning, at least, half of the incoming chips go into your pocket and what is left go into your chip rack. If you are winning your chip rack fills up, just like a plugged up stool in the Casino restroom. As your chip rack begins to overflow... stuff the green and any black chips into your pocket. If you are losing... keep your hands and fingers out of your POCKETS. If you want me to prevent your fudging a bit, ask me to take a 2 by 4 piece of lumber and whack the offending knuckles. Those "pocket flinching knuckles trying to extract any of the the winnings put aside for an emergency"... ask and I will whack that left hand, most likely, hard enough to catch the middle three fingers. When the knuckles have had time to swell up, you can be cured.

    (1) one point and two tenths of the next point

    IF YOU HAVE EVER BELIEVED THAT BY READING A BOOK ON HOW TO "WIN AT CRAPS" ... or... PAID SOMEONE TO STAND NEXT TO YOU WITH THEIR HAND IN YOUR LEFT POCKET... you need someone, like myself, to PLEASE take that 2 by 4 piece of Minnesota Pine and whack your right hand's knuckles. IF you are just too F$%&#ing stupid to figure out this ONE POINT to help you resist not to leaving as a LOSER... over and over. You may deserve some immediate medical attention and leave the Craps Table, due to discomfort, and have an excuse to depart your "buddies" who find satisfaction being associated with a real big loser in comparison to themselves. You know, real pals.

    Since my knuckles on both hands look like I had been a middle weight boxer for most of my life and no two are straight enough to point out directions by catching a few upper front teeth in a hook, when it should have been an upper cut... I know how to leave at least with some of my dignity at a Craps Table. This was MY 2 x 4 Ponderosa Pine hardened by a kiln to prevent splintering while in use as a knuckle whacker elite.

    Craps is much like boxing. Divert your attention for a mini second and you can find yourself laying on your back wondering what part of the roof fell upon you. The table pushes your buttons. Your pals push your buttons, if you have any to push after wearing the buttons out. Even buttons you do not even know you had get pushed. It makes you wanting to "teach them a lesson". ...and they, your pals and the Casino Staff... will. The Dealer fills your chip rack with $5 reds, as the dealer expects you to put greens and blacks into that left pocket. But... fool them... all. Put 50% or more of any incoming chips into a pocket. Preferable your pocket. When leaving the table, your pants should look like you have a concealed jack hammer to charm the most critical woman in the Casino.

    Losers have a smell. A sweat that permeates the atmosphere at the Table Games, especially Craps. A loser should have to buy CO2 credits and wear a solar powered ball cap before entering the Craps Pit. These players are everywhere, at every table, at every Casino... If your Craps game stinks... you will too. The stink follows you while associating with other losers, as it makes them feel... better to do so. If you are a real big time loser... the more invitations you will receive to "lets go and play".

    ... and now I have to stop this charmed fairy tale. Although a "new thread" to the smart Craps Player has come to town... Bubble Craps.

    Bubble Craps has no rack for chips. For $200 you receive 200 blips on the screen. The Casino has "finally" figured out HOW to stick it to the smart Craps Player. They make it easy to make electronic bets with screen blips. Your reward for winning is a paper cash register strip with printed blip totals... they cannot be real... but they are real. Read some of the Bubble Craps threads. I expect to be a BCZ... Bubble Craps Zombie.

    I may as well be asked to accompany you and your blibs... and I will keep my 2 by 4 handy... just in case you do something stupid. Have fun. Enjoy. Remember... a 2 by 4 is an attention getter. Keep that in mind. Stupid people can sometimes do smart things...naw... not really, but that is probably the best encouragement I can give if you do not heed the warning label, posted on the bottom of each Craps Table in the world. "If you want to Play... you will Pay."
     
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    Last edited: May 17, 2014