The DI Rollercoaster

Discussion in 'Dice Influencing' started by Dave G Ct, Nov 9, 2018 at 8:37 PM.


  1. Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    DI' ers have the hardest time dealing with the ups and downs. One will practice, get his shot down, go to live play and win 3 or 4 times.But then a dry spell which of course has them doubting their ability.Hey it must be my grip or my betting strategy is wrong.I may have to find another approach.It goes on and on.

    Myself you have to take it in stride.I remember MP telling of a trip to Detroit City.First two hands total Wipeout.Leaves and goes to another casino and has a 48 roll hand!. So take it in stide.If you have a legit shot and things go bad just remain confident, maybe take a brake and come back loose.That is the only way!
     
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  2. KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Craps is a game of chance using two dice where eleven different numeric outcomes can show thirty-six specific dice outcomes on top.

    The on top is important, because it is the dice outcome visible on top of the dice that defines the result of the roll.

    Where there are 36 dice outcomes always showing one of eleven number possible numbers, some of the numbers will be less likely to roll, some more likely. What this means is that there will be variability with the results. As a result of this variability, you have your ups and downs. These ups and downs will involve not only the so-called DI, but other shooters as well.

    Because it is the number with the most likely probability of showing at outcome that defines the rules of the game, this number will tend to show more often than all other numbers, making the shooters roll to be a fairly short one, usually.

    On occasion, there will be rolls of 50, 100, 154 and 200.
     
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  3. Dave G Ct

    Dave G Ct Member

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    200? Wow

    Koko as you know some numbers can show more than what is statistically expected hence the term DI.
     
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  4. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Your above statement in and of itself sparks
    much of the conflict centered around the art of DI / Controlled Toss.
    Random players believe that no influence on the dice can , in
    anyway affect the final outcome . There belief is that
    nothing the shooter can do will alter in any way the final outcome
    the dice display as they come to rest.
    There attitude is ,
    "A combination of circumstantial events operating by chance
    will bring about a desired result"
    Their strategy then becomes , "RIGHT PLACE , RIGHT TIME"

    In short they patiently wait , watch and HOPE for good things to happen
    while the DI remains determined in his effort , "To MAKE things happen"
    The reality is , has been and always will be , the person who makes
    a well planned and concerted effort to ,, BRING ABOUT those
    desired outcomes will in the long run be the one who most consistently
    COMES OUT AHEAD.
    To think otherwise is pure folly.
    The idea that , "DOING NOTHING" and
    "WORKING TOWARD A DESIRED OUTCOME"
    will each bring about the exact same result is totally , Counter Intuitive
    and very baffling to the trained and skilled , controlled tosser.
     
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  5. The Comeback Kid, Nov 10, 2018 at 10:45 AM

    The Comeback Kid

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    The difference between ordeal & adventure is attitude.
    If you keep your wits about you, your loss defines your win.
    And when it comes...it's spectacular.

    tenor.gif
     
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  6. Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    Any good gambler will have ups and downs.

    What makes you a good one is how you act when you lose, winning is easy. Then there’s optimisation and opportunities.
     
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  7. eagleeye2

    eagleeye2 Member

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    Freddy,

    Kindly re-post a single previous post of yours, where you showed the folks how to improve their winning ways!

    eagleeye2
     
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  8. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    This is where so many fall short. When that opportunity
    does appear they don't step up their game to fully capitalize,
    they continue on with their conservative betting pattern rather than
    switching into a more aggressive strategy.
     
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  9. twodicebilly

    twodicebilly Member

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    koko


    All that is fine, but there is also one thing that is true, the guy that
    gets to 30 10 times a week has a much better chance to hit 50
    than a guy that's gets a 30 roll every other month..

    change your sets, change your luck

    tdb
     
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  10. KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    While I am in agreement with you that the time to get out bigger bets is when ahead, there are times that this will result in the loss of a big winner rather than a bigger win.

    This happens to all of us at times, doesn't it?
     
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  11. KokomoJoe4

    KokomoJoe4 Member

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    Dave,

    a better term for this would be variance. ;)
     
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  12. TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    The question is when you push bets higher...in effect putting out what was already won with the idea of winning bigger...that won money is now at risk.

    Is it better to accumulate smaller wins or risk those smaller wins with the potential to win a bigger hit? It's an age old question, but a player can't just ignore that he is putting won money back on the table. Very easy to say..."It was house money anyway" when that guy is walking out the door after pushing it higher is break even....vs the guy with a smaller win, walking and saying "my won money".

    In the end...did that (those) larger wins eclipse the smaller, more frequent wins?

    That's tough to quantify unless you've played it both ways, kept track and figured it out. I doubt anyone has done that. I believe the game, as built..suggests the small win guy will fare better (less worse) over long term.

    It's big win vs. no win or small win more times. I don't think there is a right or wrong.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018 at 9:32 AM
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  13. Freddyy

    Freddyy Member

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    You need to be collecting more then you press to win. But you need to parlay a bet somewhere in the mid range to boost the income of your 10-15+ roll hands.

    I like to press a unit, collect, then parlay, up a unit again, collect.

    If you same bet a 3 unit bet you would get 105$ back, next hit is 21$

    If you do the presses, 168$, next hit is 70$.

    Theorically, best is to just up a unit, until like 25% is two units and so on, kelly system. But you miss out on big payday’s.
     
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  14. TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    The randie suffers from the same problem.
     
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  15. TDVegas

    TDVegas Member

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    If you know a 10-15 roll hand is coming....sure. Still doesn't answer the question if after a push higher the 7 shows, meanwhile the guy who didn't press still has banked winnings and you're starting over.

    It comes down to do you know the 10-15 hand is coming? No one does.

    I'm not discounting the effect of progression betting to make big money...but to ignore or cast off banking smaller wins is simply an "eyes shut" mentality.

    A lot depends on how much play, how many sessions, etc.
     
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  16. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Absolutely it does , where the overly conservative better
    has a much more serious problem is he has a tendency to not
    take full advantage of a good opportunity when it presents itself.
    I have seen many times over the years where one of those big trends hit
    the conservative player and the more aggressive player each
    bet $5 on the nine , it hits 4 times , the conservative player wins $28
    while the more conservative player wins $108.
    They each have $5 at risk , the one player takes FULL ADVANTAGE..

    That is why I , so often say ,
    While the game is going on a player knows what , "he SHOULD be doing".
    and when the game is over , he knows what "he should have done"

    A savvy player can learn from these sessions.
     
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  17. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Actually my overall betting strategies pretty much guard against
    big losses.
     
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  18. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Losing that money does not in anyway risk your initial bankroll which
    in and of itself makes pressing / parlaying bets much easier for
    the player who might otherwise be reluctant to press bets when the occasion
    calls for such action.
    This type of bet could be considered a , "FORCE MULTIPLIER"
    If you have $5 at risk and you pres with house money on the 9 with 3 hits
    you would have an opportunity on a $5 to have $45 riding as opposed to $5
    and you would have your entire original bet back in the rack with a $3 profit.
    One more hit you would rack $108 instead of $28
    and this with none of your bankroll at risk.
    The answer is not terribly difficult , in fact quite simple ,
    It is much easier to get ahead with large wins
    than it is with small wins and it is so much easier
    risking their money than your bankroll .
    If you are playing with won money
    your worst case scenario is you come out even, no loss of bankroll.
     
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  19. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    With that mindset it makes it easier to place the bets .
    I for one am much more willing to play house money
    I can win with no risk.
    If I press a $7 win on the six to $12 I have an opportunity
    to win $14 while risking $6 of my bankroll. To me the odds
    go from 7 to 6 up to 14 to 6 because I have $6 of my bankroll at risk for $14
    In my case yes.
     
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  20. James Hall

    James Hall Member

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    Again
    It's easier to get ahead with large wins than with small wins.
     
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