THE HOLY GRAIL for CRAPS DEALERS

Discussion in 'Beginner Zone' started by SevenOut, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. SevenOut, Sep 8, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    From a number of Gaming School and Casino Dealer manuals, I liked the Sam's Town Casino, Kansas City, Missouri Craps Manual explanation of a Craps Dealer. The manual is also the shortest manual, as far as pages, of any of the west Missouri Casino manuals. Harrah's North Kansas City has the most detailed manual and a work manual that asks questions for the training dealer to test themselves.

    The Sam's Town Casino, Kansas City was a Riverboat in a terrible piece of real estate on a steep narrow piece of land next to the Missouri River on the north side. It was smaller than the other Casinos at the time and was the FIRST to go out of business. I am sure the River Boat was moved to a smaller town along the Missouri River and changed its name. Some of these boats ended up moved to spots along the Missouri or Mississippi Rivers. Now the majority of Missouri Casinos are all Land Based... but close to the River.

    The Professional Dealer

    By the time you finish this course, you will be well skilled in the technical aspects of dealing. You should be able to work in any Casino in the World and adapt your skills to the procedures required.

    However, please remember, that technical skill is only part of being a good dealer or a good employee. Appearance and attitude are just as important.

    Make sure your uniform is always clean, in good repair and worn as requested by management. Your hands should be clean and your nails well kept.

    Good posture while dealing is also important, not only to your appearance, but also to your health.

    Courtesy is the professional dealer's by-word. There is never an excuse for being rude to a customer, no matter how obnoxious he or she may become. Any problems or disputes must be handed over to the boxman as soon as possible.

    However, courtesy is more than not being rude. Make the words "please", "thank you" and "it has been my pleasure" a permanent part of your vocabulary. Use the titles "sir" and "ma'am" when addressing customers. Do not use terms of endearment such as "honey", "dear" or "buddy". Your attempt at friendliness will be seen by some as a lack of respect.

    Courtesy to your fellow employees is also an important part of being a good dealer. Punctuality is a must, whether in arriving for work or returning from break. When you are late, you are depriving one of your co-workers of their free time.

    Always remember, the floorperson is the Final Authority. Never argue with a floorperson or dispute his or her decision in front of a customer. Disagreements with your supervisor should be discussed in private.

    Good luck on your new career.

    ************

    This statement in the manual is WHY, when at Sam's Town in Las Vegas the Casino is full and busy! Although Sam's Town is off the strip... the Casino takes care of their customers and the perks for the regular, average players is one to copy by other Casinos in the USA! This was taken word for word from the Dealer's Training Manual, June 15, 1995, North Kansas City, Missouri.

    If anyone wants any further "word for word" dealer procedures and methodology, ask. If not, I have opened this for anyone who wants to make any further comments and I can rest my case. The Professional Dealer portion makes it known to the table's dealer, that the customer/player can go to another Casino if not treated well by the Casino staff. I am working out of five or six Craps school manuals and can probably find the best answer for dealer procedures that you may not be familiar. I have a manual or two where the "old school Craps trainers" have an interesting 1940's to the 1960's methodology that the corporate Casinos... changed... a lot!

    I think what drove Sam's Town KC, Missouri out of this market was the location and difficult adaptation of the worst conditions for parking and River Boat mooring in the area. It was my favorite River Boat, decent buffets, great Casino staff and an example of how all Craps staff have been instructed to "treat the player right" attitude.

    You have been to Casinos that cater to smaller communities and these rules become more flexible. This is not by accident. The dealers KNOW you, your game and let you know you are welcome. As with any manual, over time there is flexibility with treatment of players that are regulars.
     
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  2. jkluv7, Sep 9, 2013

    jkluv7

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    To me, and for my playing, the dealers make the game. I like showing up, being adressed by first name, knowing my buy-in and what chips I require, knowing my bets and just being all out friendly. It feels like 'home' my wife always says when we are at the craps table. The dealer chatter is always fun and lively, always giving the scoop with what is going on in A/C, who is selling out, who is buying who and what football teams are playing who. Some players want the dealers to shut up and just deal... I want to make their job fun while they make my stay fun. When I find a dealer with an attitude who shows an attitude on a couple of different games, then the casino loses my business, not just that table or that dealer. If managament lets one dealer carry a bad attitude to their job, then how many other dealers are going to be the same?
    The dealers have a really hard job, and I for one recognize this fact. Let's do our best as players to make their job a little better. Get to know your dealer's first name and always say hello to them by name when you see them. You would be surprised how different the game becomes when everyone gets along.

    Jeffrey
     
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  3. SevenOut, Sep 10, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    This bit of nostalgia dealing probably is from the Dunes or a Downtown Casino in Las Vegas. It is missing the title page, as the manuals would have a number on it, so was removed when I was given a copy. But... the information that was dispensed then is just as good today. I can tell this is a bit vintage as it has payoffs on 25 cent increments. I remember Downtown having a stack of 50 cent pieces on a table at one time for payouts...

    Many dealer manuals will not get into this kind of detail, as it makes the Casino look paranoid about cheaters. And they should be, although the spotters walking above the gaming floor is improved with all of the HD camera equipment and storage of images taken, if and when needed for review... then or later. If a player insists they were not paid... the staff can ask for confirmation in short order. If it a small dollar amount... the boxman can just instruct the dealer to pay the player to keep the "peace" AND have a video review to know for sure.

    Protecting the Dice-

    A dealer may encounter superstitious bettors. You may be told things like "Don't touch my money" or "Don't make change". In these cases a dealer must do his best to satisfy the customer and follow the rules of the house. Usually the best thing to do is find out how your supervisor wants the situation handled. Don't be reluctant to mention any unusual player conduct to a pit boss or boxman.

    Sometimes you will have to settle minor customer disputes, very often pertaining to who owns a particular bet. It is the dealer's responsibility to know who owns each bet. If this can't be determined, the situation should be referred to a supervisor. No money is paid out unless it is authorized. If players persist in "claiming bets", inform a supervisor.

    A dealer may advise a customer on proper ways to play the game, but be careful not to tell him how to play his money.

    Each house will supply you with their own dealer apron; it must be worn at all times when dealing.

    When moving a customer's money, don't have any house money in your hand.

    As your instructor will later demonstrate to you, make all payoffs so that the boxman may see your moves.

    Verbally acknowledge all customer bets by repeating them back to the customer. This will avoid disputes.
     
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  4. The Midnight Skulker, Sep 11, 2013

    The Midnight Skulker

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    From my observations this sometimes requires a translation from jargon to official language. For example, a player tosses two singles to the stick asking for "ET", and the stick will repeat, "Eleven twelve for two."
     
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  5. SevenOut, Sep 12, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    So... you want to go to Craps Dealers' School?

    December 1993 I had priced three gaming schools that taught Craps Dealers as well as other Casino table games. It was to get a feel for what a Craps Dealer education would cost as well as the amount of time working tables at the school. This was probably a time when the demand for Casino table game dealers and slot machine techs were at their highest demand. You had many States legalizing limited and unlimited table games to be permitted by an individual State. Over time, even these laws were changed to keep up with border States with more liberal Casino games, hours of operation and dropped the maximum a player could buy in at any two or four hour period. Today, the State and Indian Casinos rank there with those games and slot machines of Las Vegas and Atlantic City, as far as gaming. Las Vegas is still offers more entertainment in the US than any other State or City. Atlantic City must be number two, but Las Vegas has perfected its image and adapts itself in changes in gamblers' tastes.

    Students at any gaming school received NO pay, No room, No board much like any College or University. So when you figure those costs into the cost of the class(es), the total costs were significant. Whenever you criticize a dealer at any Casino, take these costs into mind that this person really wanted the job and has no reason but to perform their profession to the highest perfection.

    Your first job would be in the smaller, local player Casino. These are the places where some of the most belligerent, obnoxious, nasty players could be found among the most gentile, nicest people anyone would ever want to meet. This is where a newbie Dealer developed tact, a thicker skin, and their dealing skills. A mistake is made and you heard about it. Those of you who remember the "old" Las Vegas Downtown crowd... you are nodding your heads in agreement. I do not care what table game you dealt, you were expecting anything to happen. The new Dealer then recognized the importance of the Pit Boss, Floorman and Boxman with years of experience. They were seasoned and could handle any situation... nicely... or not so nice. Do your job, be friendly and everything else would take care of itself.

    When a Strip Casino job opened... you applied and your dealing technique was tested. Your personality. Your quick thinking. Did you deal multiple table games? What, if any Gaming School experience... you ran the gauntlet. Hired... success this time. Not hired... next time could be the one.

    Once you made it to the Strip dealing or a major Atlantic City Casino, you were among the Expert Dealers in the WORLD. But, you had to move to Las Vegas from West Wendover, Sparks or Reno. To many competent Dealers, staying where they were content working at the Casino they currently worked was all they wanted and could easily audition at a major Casino center, but chose not to. Now Southeast Asia is the ultimate place to deal with its own specific cultural differences in dealer/player relations. No matter where one deals or prefers to live, Dealing a live table is a job and a career to many. But no matter where an Expert Dealer resides, all started out being trained at a Gaming School or by the Casino staff. Some Dealers last a year, some will eventually retire as a Pit Boss or be working in the back offices... but being a Dealer gets you into the gaming industry and you are limited by only your ambition, ability and open positions available while you are employed. Sometimes a promotion can only occur when a superior quits, dies, retires or moves on to another Casino.

    Gaming School rates for 1993-1994:

    St. Louis, Missouri opened a private Gaming School just west of the city.

    Blackjack 120 hours $ 649
    Craps 200 hours $1695
    Roulette 144 hours $1695
    Baccarat 120 hours $ 650

    International Dealers School, Las Vegas, Nevada

    Blackjack 144 hours $ 449
    Roulette 120 hours $ 499
    Craps 216 hours $1200

    Las Vegas Gaming and Technical School, Nevada

    ALL Table Games 20 Weeks $3,095
     
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  6. SevenOut, Sep 12, 2013

    SevenOut

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    I can see that there is minimal interest among Beginners or Advanced Players to jump in and participate. Participation is how you learn. I do not expect anyone to have a correct answer all of the time. You have to start somewhere and this is the Forum opportunity to progress from the typical Craps Player and the atypical Craps Player.

    Few Craps Players are fluent playing the Pass Line AND the Don't Pass. They find it confusing... which it is not. What is so confusing if I say "add 3 plus 2 and get 5", or, "subtract 2 from 5 and get 3". Nothing. It is just another way of thinking, and I want you to THINK. I have jumped into some of these "tar baby threads" which have no solution, other than a waste of my and your time. These threads get more attention because the posters try to create a discussion, but really do not want to know the answer or truth as they have no answers, only more questions to respond to reasonable answers. You know which threads I am speaking about. It is a dumbing down of the Forum. If that is the direction players want to take... the Casino is willing to "help" you dispose of your bankroll any day of the week and I will have to give up the question, answer and discussion technique used by the Ancient Greeks to teach and students to learn.

    I am throwing out this question for a beginner, as this is a fact of playing Craps you need to know:

    "WHY does the Craps Dealer ask and WANT a VIG of 5% when a Buy or Lay Bet is made?"

    This question is in the Las Vegas Strip Dealers School dealer's manual directed toward a Dealer student. You really do WANT to know what the dealer is being taught, as it is important to your game. Even I want to refresh myself on the Don't Pass bets!
     
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  7. jkluv7, Sep 12, 2013

    jkluv7

    jkluv7 Member

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    SevenOut - I, for one, absolutely respect what you are attempting to do.
    Perhaps many of the new members are intimidated by other posts which were not too cordial?
    It is a good thing to reach out, offer an olive branch for the forum as a whole and offer help.
    Keep it up !!
    Jeffrey
     
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  8. rudeboy99, Sep 12, 2013

    rudeboy99

    rudeboy99 Member

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    The gaming industry where I live is so weak now that the town has NO dealing schools available commercially that I'm aware of..and most break-ins are trained up "in house"...When I "turned out", I didn't go to a school...I hired on at the old Nevada Club, working for an old gambling pioneer named Lincoln Fitzgerald who would give you a shot to learn the game, first memorizing the stick calls and chip location on the props, then learning proper dealing procedures, how to handle yourself as a base dealer when the game was dead from the more experienced hands and the floor bosses. It was a .25 game and let me tell you, you would move a TON of bets every shift, the table was about 50% street fleas and winos, most of the rest serious, savvy low limit players who knew the game inside and out. It was a tough row to hoe, man, but one of the finest training grounds for solid, journeyman, dice dealers. From that little toilet, a unknown ( lots) number started their career in other venues as they opened up across the nation, and the globe, honestly. The guy who first hired me, Fitzgerald, had learned his gaming chops supervising and running gambling concerns in the Detroit area for the "Purple Gang", an organized crime syndicate who were contemporaries of A Capone and the Chicago Outfit, during Prohibition and the Depression. See, when gambling was first legalized in Nevada in '38, the only people that knew how to run a joint came from Illegal gambling markets. The fact that Fitz was hustler isn't germane to the thread, but I think it's interesting. At one time in Reno, we had 2 or three accredited dealing schools here...but business sucks so bad now, nobody wants to mess with it. :p
     
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  9. SevenOut, Sep 12, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    rudeboy99... what a story. When is the EBook coming out?

    When I made the mistake of wanting to open up a Las Vegas Night/ Gaming School/ and Office Decor Shop before Riverboat Gambling was just being considered in Missouri... I bought my equipment from a guy, like your mentor.

    Eddie must had been in his mid to late 70's and lived in a pre fabricated double wide with lots of outdoor storage. This was in North Las Vegas getting near the Air Force Base. It has been over twenty years ago, so I would have to dig to recall his last name, etc. I was in the market for tables, chairs, layouts, chips, dice, cards, dealing shoes and the whole works. He might have stood about 5 foot 4 inches but had the enthusiasm of a professional football player at the Super Bowl! I found his name talking to the older instructors at the gaming schools in Las Vegas at the time. Eddie was my man.

    When I was in Las Vegas, my wife and I flew into town and were staying somewhere at the Strip. We had rented a car as I had to hit the back streets where the Casino Supply Vendors were located, just off the Strip. A full sized roulette wheel... $25,000. Why Eddie had a couple of antique wheels for $2,000 each and nicer. So screw the craps tables, we were off to see Eddie.

    At first I could not see how Eddie could have anything but some chips and loose dice. To my surprise the Blackjack tables and stools were stacked six feet high. Roulette stools. Table bases for various break down H Frame BJ tables. Inside his home he had chips, dice, free play slot tokens, some older electronic slot machines and who knows what else. And... Eddie was ready to deal. I rented the largest UHaul truck I could get and my wife, wondering what were we going to do with this stuff... took the notes, count and cost of what was going into the UHaul. The Blackjack tables were the big kidney shaped ones from the Stardust. I bought two Craps Tables used to train dealers from the Dunes Casino. Stools from the Stardust. Custom made Black Jack tables and stools. I FILLED the UHaul.

    Inside I bought thousands of obsolete clay chips. Not the plastic chips people tell you are clay... nice Paulson hat and cane cancelled chips. I bought thousands of a Las Vegas gaming school chips that were clay hat & cane chips. Eddie said he had "nicer chips" in these cartons of 100.... but $1 each. I did not even look at those... as 10 cents each was a great buy for the others. Those $1 each chips... the biggest mistake of my junk buying career. I found about 150 of the not so unique chips that were bringing $25 and $30 each! I sold them to a chip dealer and realized the big mistake of not buying the "good stuff" for $1 each. I still wonder what Eddie had in those cartons.

    Eddie tried to sell me an old car that his brother left him upon his death, not long prior to my stopping by. Naw.... I did not know if it would make it back to Kansas City and my wife would have to drive it. So, no car this trip. Eddie asked, "do you want to set up a Pizza Shop with all of the equipment and seating?" Naw... no pizza interest. And it went on and on.

    I asked Eddie, how did you gather so much stuff? He was the slot mechanic for Bugsy Siegel of the Flamingo Casino in Las Vegas. He said those were the days when a gambler was treated right! But... you said Mr. Siegel, Sir. You say Bugsy and you were going to have some problems awaiting.... but I drift on. Eddie spent his life working the Casino trade and also had a wonderful network of other old timers who were now running slot departments and also would call Eddie when the Casino wanted to rid themselves of worn equipment. Or, in the case of the pizza business... tear out and put in some other kind of gambler attraction that might work out better.

    So when I needed some slot machines... Eddie said... how many and come with me. We would go into a Casino basement and lined up were older, out of date slot machines. These were those electrical mechanical Bally 700 series... antiques even in those days. Just point which you have an interest. All were shopped out. I would point those I had an interest and Eddie would sign off on them, the staff loaded them. They were priced as if Eddie was taking them home and wanting to piddle around with them. Even the later machines with the payout hoppers were part of the deal and I converted them to brass 25 cent tokens and on Las Vegas nights at the shop, the Craps playing husbands had their wives playing the slots and video poker machines. When a "nickel colored token came out of a payout" it was worth two $5 chips for the Craps Table play.

    I do miss those days. But I learned who to trust and who not. Eddie treated me good. He did not have a wife at the time, if ever and I never inquired. He could have been just a full time bachelor. I am sure when he died, nobody would have wanted what was left at Eddie's place. I had all I needed. If at times you feel I am being a bit up front in my responses to a reply made for some ridiculous statements being made on the Forum... think of Eddie. He did me right and I am just repaying others that did not have the opportunity to meet these guys. I did. If they like you and your upfront honesty... you could do business. If not. Get in the %$&# car and %$&* off.
     
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  10. rudeboy99, Sep 13, 2013

    rudeboy99

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    Yeah, I've often wondered what the final resting place is for all the casino equipment coming out of bust out spots that weren't picked up at auction...there's gotta be a couple of "Lost Dutchman" storage facilities in both our respective communities. High grade gambling gear stashed who knows where, waiting to be sprung and used again. In a coincidental side-note about these old school gambling pioneers, when I was a very young man, I made a living primarily working for cattle outfits in northern Nevada and southeastern Oregon, doing whatever job needed doing...hay crews, building fence, pushing cows, etc. A couple of my running buddies were in a family that ran a couple of bands of sheep around that country, but who had a home ranch due north of Winnemucca. It was through them that I became acquainted with an older fellow who stayed there named Phil Tobin, a weathered, stove up former rancher and cowboy who was spending his twilight years there doing whatever he needed to, but basically semi-retired, taking it easy. We became friends of a sort, visiting on the porch, sharing a ice cool beer after busting ass (me ) in the blazing sun from almost " can't see " until evening. He was one of the kindest, most interesting men I'd encountered at that point in my young, wayward life. A natural gentleman, and painfully honest and unassuming, very intelligent as well. He passed away, as old folks will, when I was still pretty young, but he made quite an impression on me, probably giving me more of an idea of how a person became an adult than any other influence in my life. He was that much of a square shooter. Imagine my surprise upon learning ten years down the road, that my elderly friend had authored a bill, as a rookie legislator out of Humbolt County, that was passed in the 1931 meeting of the Nevada State legislature that became the law making gambling legal throughout the state. He never mentioned it around me in all our talks...I guess he didn't feal it was a big deal...LOL! A true class act.! :blank:
     
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  11. SevenOut, Sep 13, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    OK. We need a beginner to give some thought on this question... again. Give it a shot. It is a very important aspect of Craps that the Casino and all of their Dealers understand very well. The problem is, as usual, the players are not sure WHY...




    I am throwing out this question for a beginner, as this is a fact of playing Craps you need to know:

    (1) “WHY does the Craps Dealer ask and WANT a VIG of 5% when a Buy or Lay Bet is made?”

    This question is in the Las Vegas Strip Dealers School dealer’s manual directed toward a Dealer student. You really do WANT to know what the dealer is being taught, as it is important to your game. Even I want to refresh myself on the Don’t Pass bets!


    (2) Which Craps Table has BETTER ODDS on the Hard Six and Eight bet? Casino 1- 9 to 1 OR Casino 2- 10 for 1. And Why?
     
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  12. Dragline, Sep 14, 2013

    Dragline

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    Can't take uou up on the questions because I'm not a beginner.

    But I have my own question for you dealers.

    I've often laid odds bets on the 5/9 DP that involve $1 chips, like $36 or $48. Due to the interesting math, these can always be paid by taking the ones and rounding up. So $36 pays $24, which could be paid with a quarter and taking the one. And $48 pays $32, which could be paid by taking the three and paying $35. (It always works -- crazy!) Yet I almost never see dealers do this.

    I asked one last month (in Charles Town, WV) why not and she said they were not allowed to do it on a lay like that. I was curious if anyone knew why that would be the case. Is it a question of mixing house and player money or something else?
     
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  13. mycoalsmith, Sep 14, 2013

    mycoalsmith

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    SevenOut - very interesting story you have with your old buddy Eddie. I often wondered what happened to the old equipment - if the casinos had it destroyed so no "competition" would start up, or if they sold it at auction to just get what they could on it, since their new equipment was "top of the line" and all shiny. Interesting.

    I'll have a go at your question. I would assume with #1, the 5% aids the casino in making more money - they get a guaranteed 5% from the start, and if the 7 comes up alot quicker than the other numbers, players have to rebuy resulting in more 5% profits right off the top. I would also have to assume it makes for easier payouts as well - the dealers do payouts quicker, and the next roll can happen all that much faster. More rolls means more money for the casino.

    #2. Hmmm. I'll have to think more on this one.

    [quote author="SevenOut" date="1379131035
    I am throwing out this question for a beginner, as this is a fact of playing Craps you need to know:

    (1) “WHY does the Craps Dealer ask and WANT a VIG of 5% when a Buy or Lay Bet is made?”

    This question is in the Las Vegas Strip Dealers School dealer’s manual directed toward a Dealer student. You really do WANT to know what the dealer is being taught, as it is important to your game. Even I want to refresh myself on the Don’t Pass bets!


    (2) Which Craps Table has BETTER ODDS on the Hard Six and Eight bet? Casino 1- 9 to 1 OR Casino 2- 10 for 1. And Why?[/quote]
     
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  14. packerfan, Sep 14, 2013

    packerfan

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    I'll stick my neck out and answer this one. I think I know what it is.

    They're the same. At 9-1 you get $9 for a win and your $1 bet stays up or you get it back if you decide to take it down for a $10 return.

    The "10 for one" means you get paid $10 for a $1 bet including your original $1 so you get $10 back if you decide to take the bet down.

    The casinos do the 10 for 1 because it looks better to the player who doesn't realize what it means and think they are getting a better payout.
     
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  15. SevenOut, Sep 14, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    Packerfan... I am going to have my Packer Fan neighbor run up that damn Packer flag up his flag pole... again! Unless the Broncos are playing. You are 100% correct and the only place I had seen any better bet was in Australia where their Hardway 6 and 8 pay 10 TO 1. Thank you for participating!
     
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  16. SevenOut, Sep 14, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    [quote author="mycoalsmith" date="1379186011"]SevenOut - very interesting story you have with your old buddy Eddie. I often wondered what happened to the old equipment - if the casinos had it destroyed so no "competition" would start up, or if they sold it at auction to just get what they could on it, since their new equipment was "top of the line" and all shiny. Interesting.

    I'll have a go at your question. I would assume with #1, the 5% aids the casino in making more money - they get a guaranteed 5% from the start, and if the 7 comes up alot quicker than the other numbers, players have to rebuy resulting in more 5% profits right off the top. I would also have to assume it makes for easier payouts as well - the dealers do payouts quicker, and the next roll can happen all that much faster. More rolls means more money for the casino.

    (1) “WHY does the Craps Dealer ask and WANT a VIG of 5% when a Buy or Lay Bet is made?”

    This question is in the Las Vegas Strip Dealers School dealer’s manual directed toward a Dealer student. You really do WANT to know what the dealer is being taught, as it is important to your game. Even I want to refresh myself on the Don’t Pass bets!
    ***********


    mycoalsmith. You are on the money! Anything a Casino requires at any table is a business decision... for their bottom line. This is exactly why they want the VIG up front. Unlike an earlier post on the Forum where the Casino asked for the VIG AFTER a win, which was a slight benefit (this was on the discussion on the 5/9 Lay bets to win an extra $1, which was a 5% increase in the payout to the player).

    I am pulling this directly out of the 1983 Strip Dealers School manual and explains the situation as far as Dealer procedure as you said in fewer words. Craps is easy to understand, once we understand WHY certain procedures are an accepted fact of play.

    "Dealer should always quote the VIG right in with the price of the sample bet, like the extra $1 in $41."... I am adding... this is for the 4/10 Lay Bet for clarification... "This will avoid confusion with the Player's part. Most of the time, the tourist figures that if he gives the House the True Odds, he should not have to pay to make the bet too. The Player does not realize that the 5% VIG is the only way the House is ASSURED OF A PROFIT; otherwise it would be a 50-50 gamble for the Player as well as the Casino."
     
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  17. SevenOut, Sep 14, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    mycoalsmith and packerfan have exposed the CASINO for what they are... a business to make a profit. You heard bucking the odds... well, this is the "bucking" part.

    Lay Bets:
    4 or 10 - $41 to win $20
    5 or 9 - $31 to win $20
    6 or 8 - $31 to win $25

    OK... I am a $200 or $300 bankroll player. So keep the bets down for the vast majority in this betting range bankroll and my next questions.

    (1) Why is there NO VIG on a Place Bet asked by the Dealer when the bet is made?

    (2) When is it to the Player's ADVANTAGE to BUY a "number"? If so, WHICH Buy Bet(s) are the MOST favorable to the player?

    (3) Why are Place Bets OFF (not working) on a COME OUT ROLL, yet Lay Bets are ON (working as they say)?

    (4) How do you know that your Place Bets are OFF on the Come Out Roll?

    (5) How does a Dealer indicate that the bet you have made is a BUY BET?

    These questions I offer are also Basic Craps knowledge that ALL players should understand. To many players, the Buy, Place and Lay Bets remain "fuzzy in understanding". Right now, forget the Pass Line, Don't Pass, Come and Don't Come bets. Focus on the Buy, Place and Lay Bets for now. The "dark side" according to front line players is the least understood part of Craps. Jump in and give it a try. Since the vast majority of Craps Players are "right side" players, understanding the other 50% of the table will not hurt you.
     
    #17
  18. SevenOut, Sep 16, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    For an observant player at a Craps table and watching the Stickman work, maybe you will answer these questions:

    (1) The Stickman has the primary job of keeping the dice secure and maintain the momentum of the game. Of course, the stickman must know who the current shooter at the table is positioned. In the event the table is rotating positions for breaks, the stickman will point out with WHAT to the replacement stickman WHO the current shooter is.

    (2) The Stickman being relieved slaps his hands together where it is very obvious. Why?

    (3) When the dice are thrown, each base dealer (the dealer at each end of a table) watch WHAT and WHY?

    (4) When the dice are thrown, the Stickman watches which end of the table WHEN the dice are thrown?

    (5) When the Boxman is not at the table. The Stickman must watch WHICH end of the table AFTER the dice are thrown... and WHY?

    (6) The Craps Table manual asks the Stickman to say WHAT to the players before being relieved?


    Trust me. These appear to be easy AFTER they are answered, but give it a try. This is Dealer Procedure at most if not all Casinos. As a BONUS question... and the two or three dealers I am aware... you guys already know this procedure and lets see what the Players say.

    (7) The dice are thrown and the stickman makes the call of the dice total. The END DEALERS have a procedure they follow each and every roll. I am giving you eight options that you must put in the correct order of the THREE that are correct procedure. IF you say you have played at a Craps table more than once, you have seen this over and over. If you have been playing for 20 years this should be burned into your memory... but I believe the majority of players have MISSED THESE IMPORTANT PROCEDURES done millions of times a year at Craps Tables throughout the world. I only want THREE of the options, in order of proper procedure. The other five options are not part of the Stickman's Dealing Procedure Order, but to add some stickman quirks and to mess with your memory a bit. There may be partially correct end dealer rules, but these are intended to make it a little more difficult.

    1- Move the dice to the center of the table after a Seven Out.
    2- Set the dice to the center of the table with the dice showing the number thrown.
    3- Take all losing bets off the table, if any on the Pass and Don't Pass.
    4- Push the pair of dice to the shooter with the "POINT NUMBER UP".
    5- Place any new bets as they are offered and asked by a player.
    6- Pay any winning bets, if any even if they are Don't Pass bets.
    7- Using the crook of the stick, the Stickman points out to the End Dealer a winning hardway and amount of winning to be given.
    8- Dealer, after completing his procedure puts all tokes, from his end of the table, into his left pants pocket and clears his hands by a loud clap of both hands.
     
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  19. The Midnight Skulker, Sep 18, 2013

    The Midnight Skulker

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    OK, I'll step up and make a fool of myself. With over 40 years of experience, all on the outside, I suppose it's time to validate what claim I have to knowing how it's done. Maybe I won't look like too big a fool.

    Since this is a Q&A I am reverting to Usenet quoting format.

    > (1) The Stickman has the primary job of keeping the dice secure and maintain the momentum of the game. Of course, the stickman must know who the current shooter at the table is positioned. In the event the table is rotating positions for breaks, the stickman will point out with WHAT to the replacement stickman WHO the current shooter is.

    If memory serves I have seen the dealer being bumped either tap the stick in front of the shooter, or point with his/her hand while naming the shooter's position (e.g. "three right") or some identifying characteristic or item of apparel (e.g. "the cat in the hat").

    > (2) The Stickman being relieved slaps his hands together where it is very obvious. Why?

    Known as clearing hands, this action is done to show the camera(s) the dealer has no chips in them.

    > (3) When the dice are thrown, each base dealer (the dealer at each end of a table) watch WHAT and WHY?

    When the dice fly the base dealers watch their work area, the box numbers, so that they can reconstruct bets should the chips get scattered by the dice.

    > (4) When the dice are thrown, the Stickman watches which end of the table WHEN the dice are thrown?

    The Stick has the responsibility to keep track of the dice from the time they are sent to the shooter until they are retrieved back to the center of the table after the call, so I have to wonder if this is a trick question. The Stick watches the dice, not an end of the table, in order to ensure an acceptable roll (e.g. no sliders, no two-party roll) and to ensure nothing is being done to the dice (e.g. adding a foreign substance, swapping in a different die or dice).

    > (5) When the Boxman is not at the table. The Stickman must watch WHICH end of the table AFTER the dice are thrown... and WHY?

    I confess I honestly don't know, but will guess the end where the dice landed since that is the end he/she is looking at in order to make the call. My second choice would be the end with the most action, since that end is the one where the base dealer is more likely to get distracted and miss a past poster.

    > (6) The Craps Table manual asks the Stickman to say WHAT to the players before being relieved?

    I am going to guess the departing Stick is asked to introduce his/her relief to the players. For example, "Folks, this is SevenOut. He will now be trying not to hurt himself with this Scepter of Power and Punishment while simultaneously administering the Quiz of Playerhood."

    > (7) The dice are thrown and the stickman makes the call of the dice total. The END DEALERS have a procedure they follow each and every roll. I am giving you eight options that you must put in the correct order of the THREE that are correct procedure. IF you say you have played at a Craps table more than once, you have seen this over and over. If you have been playing for 20 years this should be burned into your memory... but I believe the majority of players have MISSED THESE IMPORTANT PROCEDURES done millions of times a year at Craps Tables throughout the world. I only want THREE of the options, in order of proper procedure. The other five options are not part of the Stickman's Dealing Procedure Order, but to add some stickman quirks and to mess with your memory a bit. There may be partially correct end dealer rules, but these are intended to make it a little more difficult.

    1- Move the dice to the center of the table after a Seven Out.
    2- Set the dice to the center of the table with the dice showing the number thrown.
    3- Take all losing bets off the table, if any on the Pass and Don't Pass.
    4- Push the pair of dice to the shooter with the "POINT NUMBER UP".
    5- Place any new bets as they are offered and asked by a player.
    6- Pay any winning bets, if any even if they are Don't Pass bets.
    7- Using the crook of the stick, the Stickman points out to the End Dealer a winning hardway and amount of winning to be given.
    8- Dealer, after completing his procedure puts all tokes, from his end of the table, into his left pants pocket and clears his hands by a loud clap of both hands.


    I am assuming you are looking only for the correct procedure for base dealers despite refering to "Stickman's Dealing Procedure Order,". My answer is then 3, 6, 5.
     
    #19
  20. SevenOut, Sep 18, 2013

    SevenOut

    SevenOut Member

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    YOU ARE THE MAN!

    Question 4. The stickman always watches the dice from the time he brings them to the center of the table, to the shooter, while they are in the air and once they stop he makes the call. (MS, you either own a Casino or one of the few observant players on the Forum!)

    Question 6. The Stickman introduces the new stickman and often says "thank you" upon departing. Each has their own style after pointing out the current shooter, the most important part of the rotation. (I am sure that some players have seen where the new Stickman pushes the dice to the WRONG SHOOTER. Imagine if this individual picks them up and... gasp... shoots.)

    Midnight Skulker was able to put aside being scrutinized and obviously should be adding some questions of his own onto this aspect of the Craps table. I cannot thank you enough for having the guts for no reward from your peers, other than a job well done. Unique among Forum Posters and one of the few willing to step forward.

    This is intended for everyone following this topic to learn and understand the specialized jobs each dealer and boxman do at a table. Everyone should give a question a shot.
     
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