Hi I been trying to play craps a year or so now I play very small money amounts always minimum bets.  On the come out I have been placing 5 bucks and a 1 buck craps check is this a wast or a smart play? Also I have found info on this dice setting I have no real faith in it but having been setting the dice so if I have a good roll I impress people, does it really work for good shooters?

tercol58 - 28 February 2010 03:32 PM

Hi I been trying to play craps a year or so now I play very small money amounts always minimum bets.  On the come out I have been placing 5 bucks and a 1 buck craps check is this a wast or a smart play? Also I have found info on this dice setting I have no real faith in it but having been setting the dice so if I have a good roll I impress people, does it really work for good shooters?

I like the $1 any craps on the come-out because it’s like insurance.  But it’s really a bad bet if you look at the 11% vig.  If you are not betting a lot or have a small bankroll then I would recommend not betting any craps.

Dice setting is debatable. I think it would work if you could throw the dice exactly the same way every time so that they bounce off the same places on the table and then land the same way every time. But this is virtually impossible for a human. There are too many variables to account for.  If I were a robot with a mechanical arm, then maybe I could throw the dice exactly the same way each time and roll the numbers I want.  Personally, I think dice setting, controlled shooting or rhythmic rolling is over rated.

tercol58,

I like the 1 dollar hedge.  Im not a pass line player at all.  I only play it if im throwing.  So when i do throw i like to hedge for that slim chance i throw a 2, 3 or 12.  The way i look at it is this.  If i establish a point right away, i lose a dollar.  If not, i either win 4 dollars(and then put the any crap back up) or win 2 dollars(and the any crap bet stays up).  This hedge is more common with 10 dollar or higher pass line wagers.  But i feel its great at a 5 dollar bet as well.  I dont like starting my place betting down money already.  So for me this is a nice bet.  Their isn’t anything else on the craps table i hedge.  I look at hedging this way….Yeah hedging is designed to limit losses, but it also minimizes wins.  Keep using the crap check its a smart play.

As far as dice contol.  I would be very close minded if i said it wasn’t possible.  But i myself have won with the most uncontrolled shooters, and lost big with the most rythmic looking shooters.  I do set the 3v and try to roll smooth, but thats as far as i take it.  So that shows i have enough belief to at least do that.  A lot of players disagree, but they call the back wall a randomizer for a reason, and they make you hit it on every roll for a reason.  I don’t know…  if the casinos thought it made a big enough difference, don’t you think they would take the dice out of our hands, or at least do something about it. 

good luck

lucky4688 - 01 March 2010 12:37 AM

tercol58,

I like the 1 dollar hedge.  Im not a pass line player at all.  I only play it if im throwing.  So when i do throw i like to hedge for that slim chance i throw a 2, 3 or 12.  The way i look at it is this.  If i establish a point right away, i lose a dollar.  If not, i either win 4 dollars(and then put the any crap back up) or win 2 dollars(and the any crap bet stays up).  This hedge is more common with 10 dollar or higher pass line wagers.  But i feel its great at a 5 dollar bet as well.  I dont like starting my place betting down money already.  So for me this is a nice bet.  Their isn’t anything else on the craps table i hedge.  I look at hedging this way….Yeah hedging is designed to limit losses, but it also minimizes wins.  Keep using the crap check its a smart play.

Hedging is designed to reduce volatility, and it does that; however, it also adds to expected loss, especially with a high-HA bet like Any Craps. This hedge seriously reduces the probability of breaking even or better, because you have the added “handicap” of the additional expected loss, and less variance to overcome it. Look here:

                  $5 pass     $5 pass, 1$ craps
comeout win     +5         +4
comeout loss     -5         +2
point win         +5       +4
point loss         -5       -6

expected loss       .0707     .1818
standard deviation 4.999     4.749

For 60 bets, the expected loss is $4.24 for just the $5 pass, $10.91 with the crap check. The standard deviations are $38.73 for pass and $36.79 for pass/crap check. The probability of breaking even or better is about .45 for the pass only, about .38 with the craps check.

You’re not even getting that much of a reduction in volatility. Only in the event of REALLY bad luck will you lose less with the hedge

lucky4688 - 01 March 2010 12:37 AM

As far as dice contol.  I would be very close minded if i said it wasn’t possible.  But i myself have won with the most uncontrolled shooters, and lost big with the most rythmic looking shooters.  I do set the 3v and try to roll smooth, but thats as far as i take it.  So that shows i have enough belief to at least do that.  A lot of players disagree, but they call the back wall a randomizer for a reason, and they make you hit it on every roll for a reason.  I don’t know…  if the casinos thought it made a big enough difference, don’t you think they would take the dice out of our hands, or at least do something about it. 
good luck

Yes, the California casinos, with their dice/card systems, completely eliminate the “shooter” as a factor. If the Nevada and other casinos ever become really concerned about “controlled shooters”, they have the solution at hand.
Cheers,
Alan Shank