Hi. This is my first post here but I have been playing craps on and off for some 15 years. I was playing in a casino yesterday when this situation came up. I want to get the opinion of experienced craps players on the ruling on this.

I was shooting and establish a number. I then made a Come bet of $5 and I threw a 9. I tossed my odds of $10 for the Come Bet. After a few throw, I threw a 9. The dealer gave the winning of $20 to the guy next to me. I protested and told him it was my Come Bet. I also noticed that the dealer placed my Come Bet and Odds on a position indicating it was a bet by the guy next to me and not me. My mistake and I should have caught it but I was throwing and did not realize it.

The boxman and I had an argument and the floor manager came by. The FM said he will check the video tapes. While they were doing that, I continue throwing. Eventually I seven out. The FM came back and said the video tape showed it was my bet and I was right. So the $20 was given to me.

That is well and good and it should end the matter there. However I was thinking about the Come Bet and odds which stayed on the table for $15. I did seven out and it was taken off the table. But I told the FM that they should have frozen that bet. In other words, since it was undecided who owns it, the bet should be Off and set aside until they find out from the tape who really owns it. The FM says its a legal binding bet. I countered and said what will happen if that Come Bet wins? Who will they pay? And the next one, etc.

I told them that the money involved is not quite important but its the principle. I told them they did not handle the situation well. They should have frozen that bet until a decision is made.

What do you experience craps player out there says? Thanks.

This is what I’d do:

If they paid the guy next to me, I would then tell that guy “That was my bet, my money!”.  Usually that works but if not then I would also tell the dealer “That was my bet!”

Secondly, the dealer should have placed your winnings where you placed your come bet.  Then pick up your chips.  Always place your come (and odds) bet in the same place in front of you. 

If there was a dispute I think they should have stopped the game until it was resolved.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

I was shooting and establish a number. I then made a Come bet of $5 and I threw a 9. I tossed my odds of $10 for the Come Bet. After a few throw, I threw a 9. The dealer gave the winning of $20 to the guy next to me. I protested and told him it was my Come Bet. I also noticed that the dealer placed my Come Bet and Odds on a position indicating it was a bet by the guy next to me and not me. My mistake and I should have caught it but I was throwing and did not realize it.

First off, it is not the player’s responsibility to know that where the cheques are placed is significant.  Yes, as an experienced player you should have spotted the misplacement, but it is not your responsibility to do so.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

The boxman and I had an argument and the floor manager came by. The FM said he will check the video tapes. While they were doing that, I continue throwing. Eventually I seven out. The FM came back and said the video tape showed it was my bet and I was right. So the $20 was given to me.

That is well and good and it should end the matter there. However I was thinking about the Come Bet and odds which stayed on the table for $15.

This is where you lose me.  When the 9 made both the $20 payoff and the $15 wager should have been given to the player making the bet.  Did either you or the player next to you, the one erroneously paid originally, indicate you wanted to stay up on 9 (with a Put bet)?  If not then the whole $35 should have been set aside (with an “Off” button) pending the outcome of the tape review, and I would definitely have squawked if the $15 bet was left up.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

I did seven out and it was taken off the table. But I told the FM that they should have frozen that bet. In other words, since it was undecided who owns it, the bet should be Off and set aside until they find out from the tape who really owns it.

If was really a Come bet to begin with then it has been resolved (as a winner) and should be returned to the owning player along with the payout.  Since the owning player is in doubt it (and the payout) should be set aside, but it is not still in action.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

The FM says its a legal binding bet.

Only if it is still in action, which it is not, unless you have left something out of your description or misidentified a Place bet as a Come bet.  The fact that the payoff was $20 and not $21 argues against such a misidentification, however.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

I countered and said what will happen if that Come Bet wins? Who will they pay? And the next one, etc.

I say again, there is no Come bet in action because it has been resolved.  You should have received $35 after the tape was reviewed.

leodlion - 23 June 2010 03:06 PM

I told them they did not handle the situation well. They should have frozen that bet until a decision is made.

Actually they blew it completely, but those things happen.

Permit me my own favorite anecdote with this theme.  Union Plaza, Las Vegas, I’m guessing around 10 years ago.  Trucker type, having blown a few grand on props, holds a wad of cash over the table and says, “I want to bet $2200 in the field.”  Dealer replies, “Our table limit is $1000.”  Trucker retires to an empty table along with his biker-chick entourage, returning a few minutes later.  He again holds a wad of cash over the table and says, “There’s $1000 here.  I want to bet it in the field.”  The crew freezes.  Being as I was the shooter and there was no boxperson I figured I’d better take charge.  I told the trucker to put his money in the field, which he did.  I then told the dealer, “Repeat after me: paper plays to the table limit in the field.”  The dealer says, “Yeah, that’s right.”  “No, no,” I said, “You have to book the bet,” so he repeated the magic words.

I threw a 9 and the dealer looked to the three suits observing the scenario close by.  “Pay him,” one of them said, the dealer did, and the trucker and entourage departed.  However, they still had not done it right, for the cash should have been counted to ensure there really was $1000 there.

That is well and good and it should end the matter there. However I was thinking about the Come Bet and odds which stayed on the table for $15.This is where you lose me.  When the 9 made both the $20 payoff and the $15 wager should have been given to the player making the bet.  Did either you or the player next to you, the one erroneously paid originally, indicate you wanted to stay up on 9 (with a Put bet)?  If not then the whole $35 should have been set aside (with an “Off” button) pending the outcome of the tape review, and I would definitely have squawked if the $15 bet was left up.

Thanks for the response. I agree with all of what you said.
In this casino, (Cuesatta in Lousianna), if you have a Come Bet and win, they will pay your winning but your original Come Bet and odds remain on the table. They don’t give it back to you.  I noticed this also and I thought I have forgotten this rule in craps since I haven’t play for a while. But its only unique to this casino.

leodlion - 24 June 2010 12:58 PM

In this casino, (Cuesatta in Lousianna), if you have a Come Bet and win, they will pay your winning but your original Come Bet and odds remain on the table. They don’t give it back to you.  I noticed this also and I thought I have forgotten this rule in craps since I haven’t play for a while. But its only unique to this casino.

Then this casino is [expletive deleted] up.  I presume a winning Come bet can be taken down on request?  That’s still [expletive, a synonym for male bovine excrement, deleted], and if one cannot take the bet down even by request that is just plain wrong and needs to be brought to the attention of whatever oversight authority there is in Louisiana.

(deleted)

leodlion - 24 June 2010 12:58 PM

That is well and good and it should end the matter there. However I was thinking about the Come Bet and odds which stayed on the table for $15.This is where you lose me.  When the 9 made both the $20 payoff and the $15 wager should have been given to the player making the bet.  Did either you or the player next to you, the one erroneously paid originally, indicate you wanted to stay up on 9 (with a Put bet)?  If not then the whole $35 should have been set aside (with an “Off” button) pending the outcome of the tape review, and I would definitely have squawked if the $15 bet was left up.

Thanks for the response. I agree with all of what you said.
In this casino, (Cuesatta in Lousianna), if you have a Come Bet and win, they will pay your winning but your original Come Bet and odds remain on the table. They don’t give it back to you.  I noticed this also and I thought I have forgotten this rule in craps since I haven’t play for a while. But its only unique to this casino.

That is totally, totally wrong, because a come bet behind a number has far less than a 50% chance to win, from 45.45% down to 33.3%. The whole advantage of a come bet compared to a place bet is its big advantage on its comeout roll. Now, if when you rolled the 9, winning the previous come bet, you also had a new come bet in the come section, the new come bet would go to the 9, so by leaving your $5 flat plus $10 odds on the come 9 and your $5 in the come, they are just doing “off and on with odds”. Maybe that’s what happened, or they thought that was happening. To clarify:

$5 come   roll 9
$5 come goes behind the 9, along with $10 for odds
$5 come replaced
(So, you have $20 on the table, not counting any passline bet or odds you may have.)
roll another 9
They pay you the $20 winnings on the 1st come and odds, leaving the $5 plus $10 behind the 9 and leaving your $5 in the come area.
You still have $20 on the table and $20 has been paid to you.  You can take the $5 come bet off if you wish, because it hasn’t had its comeout roll yet. The “off and on with odds” assumes you want to make another come bet.

If you didn’t have a bet in the come area, then they were cheating you out of your comeout roll on the come bet, which went directly behind the nine.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

goatcabin - 01 July 2010 01:36 PM

That is totally, totally wrong, because a come bet behind a number has far less than a 50% chance to win, from 45.45% down to 33.3%. The whole advantage of a come bet compared to a place bet is its big advantage on its comeout roll. Now, if when you rolled the 9, winning the previous come bet, you also had a new come bet in the come section, the new come bet would go to the 9, so by leaving your $5 flat plus $10 odds on the come 9 and your $5 in the come, they are just doing “off and on with odds”. Maybe that’s what happened, or they thought that was happening.

Good catch.  (BTW I presume you meant “a come bet established on a number”.  “Behind” refers to a don’t bet, so bets behind a number have a greater then 50% chance to win.)  Of course the player could then decline to take odds on the new Come bet and request that they be returned to him.

A question I would have for leodlion and Cuesatta Casino: Do they also leave winning Don’t Come bets up?  If they do, where exactly is this place?  I’m in, big time!

The Midnight Skulker - 07 July 2010 08:00 AM

goatcabin - 01 July 2010 01:36 PM

That is totally, totally wrong, because a come bet behind a number has far less than a 50% chance to win, from 45.45% down to 33.3%. The whole advantage of a come bet compared to a place bet is its big advantage on its comeout roll. Now, if when you rolled the 9, winning the previous come bet, you also had a new come bet in the come section, the new come bet would go to the 9, so by leaving your $5 flat plus $10 odds on the come 9 and your $5 in the come, they are just doing “off and on with odds”. Maybe that’s what happened, or they thought that was happening.

Good catch.  (BTW I presume you meant “a come bet established on a number”.  “Behind” refers to a don’t bet, so bets behind a number have a greater then 50% chance to win.)

Yes, that’s right, a come bet established on a number.
Cheers,
Alan Shank