**Please move if in the wrong sub-forum**

Hey everyone,

First post here - been a lurker on the forum for a little while now and need some advice on pace as well as controlling sessions last night and also perhaps suggestions how to overcome some of the potential issues I see from throwing the dice.

Intro:
Arrived at the casino about 9pm - tables are mostly full if not only 1 position left open.  I scouted out what appeared to be a good table, lots of chips on the felt, Indian guy throwing point 9.  Make about $20 off him then he sevens out, next guy up looks shady stayed out watched the 5-roll turn into 2 (come out - 4, 7’d out). 

***1st Roll***

My warm-up (which I figured might only be 8-10 rolls SRR not bad at this point) turned into a 25 minute marathon chasing my first point (10).
The come-out I roll two 7s **using the Seven-out set / setting 7s all around** then point is 10, which I rarely roll

Advice/Suggestion 1— Any advance dice set’s that could help bring out the 10 more often?

About 20mins in I hit the 10 (at this point kinda bummed as I’ve been throwing a bunch of 4’s which is RARE for me—and I never bought the 4 so everyone on the other side of the tbl is raking in my money)

Roll 6,6,7,8,4,5,4,8,9 then 7’d out.  I felt very good for my first long run since Vegas 4 months ago.

So a few questions from my first roll:

1) I do not buy the 4 or 10 as I play with a small budget up front (usually $100-200 max) trying to stay conservative yet make a small profit and maximize my stay at the table.  How many people buy the 4 or 10, and have had good return? How many have suggestions/stories about how to capitalize….

2) At times I tend to stay with a $12 6 or 8 rather than slowly press or take advantage of a good run on those #‘s. 
I can throw a good hard 6 or hard 8, so I tend to throw a few dollars on the hardways, or a hop bet.  Any suggestions on how to slowly press/parlay those?

3) Fatigue ...I felt my hand cramp or sometimes shake a bit.  Not sure if any others have had this, suggestions/comments?
***************

***2nd Roll***

Alright, I took a small break from playing the table and watched a few other’s throw 1 point and then 7 out.  So I played the DC a few times, doubled up until my next roll.  Back in action, I’m still extremely excited about the 25 min roll. 

2nd one goes kinda like this:  8,9,4,4,10,5,4,8,6,6,5,9,8,6,8,8,4,10,6,5…it kept going lost track.
Turned into a 30minute roll and then busted shortly after—wasn’t cocky but did get fatigued and lost some concentration so my dice were not landing or coming to a rest as I wanted them to.

?‘s on this one -

1) Again a bunch of 4’s and 10’s even though those numbers are not primary hits (I’m playing 3V or hardways sets)
How can I capitalize on the 4/10 with a small bankroll…as I could seven out any moment and lose my $25 buy on the 4/10 instantly.

2) Besides more practice, any additional comments from reviewing my session that you could help me out with?

****
3rd and 4th rolls after those 2 monster rolls were not very good - mainly tired/fatigued, table got real cold and everyone did end up leaving.
I thought I would have in me another good run, but i would hit one or two numbers or keep throwing a bunch of 2,11,12s—which i keep going :doh: everytime because I don’t play any horn bets mid-game.

Thanks to everyone that reads this, again first post - hope you enjoy and I am trying to advance not only my strategy but be able to continue moving forward with my game.  I do not know my SRR (sevens to roll ratio) but I would presume I’m above 6.5..good enough to swing the table in my favor.  How long do I take a rest before feeling confident to go back and hit up the table?  I tend to stay away from alcohol so I can concentrate on my game and try to win so I can pay off all of my bills, etc.

Appreciate any and all comments…...

Thanks,
SWH

Here are some of my thoughts.

A table is hot…cold…or choppy. 2 out of 3 is bad no matter the side.

When you get down it is hard to come back, hence, you have to do those things that will slow down the ‘getting down’ process.

You do this by getting back your initial bets as quickly as possible. This sounds easy but it is not easy. So….protecting early is very critical.

You can do this by regressing or saying same bet…...you can do this by making early come bets to serve as a partial hedge…...
You can do this by playing both sides of the line i.e. DP and/or DC,  coupled with placing the 6/8. Always start with minimum bets and spread and than increase bets. With all 6 numbers covered you have a 66% chance of hitting a box number on every throw of the dice. 2 out of 3 odds ain’t bad.

I like even numbers and you can get back all 4 place bets with 2 hits,  with a same bet on 4/10 and a regress when 6 or 8 hits.
I like the 4/10 and it comes up the same number of ways as the 7.

The only chance you have is to get onto a winning streak and ride it. You just need one, but you have to be there and not get knocked out early.  Taking some profit, calling off bets based on superstitions, and regressions will help you come away from a long roll with profit.

There should be a reason for everything you do at the table.  Think it thru.

Have an overall idea of what you want to accomplish ......and figure out how best to get there based upon your personality. Understand there is a trade-off for everything. There will be different strategy’s for different goals. It is important for you to know what is most important to you. Once you knpow this you can develope some strategy’s to play craps.

777

altoboy1

To start with don’t bet on anybody but your self, find an empty tables when you play!
Making a lot of 4’s and 10’s is not a problem; you just need to know how to bet on them!
With a small bankroll you can turn your problem into fast money, start with a one unit bet on the 4 and 10, with the first hit drop a white chip, and go to $15. Next hit go to $25 pull your $17 back off the table, next hit go to $50 pull your $25 off the table, next hit pull$100 off the table then from there press up you bets by one black chip with ever hit!
Make sure you are pulling money off the table with ever hit, but that first one that you needed to get you bet too $15!

Think about what is on the other side of the die if you are making 4’s and you need to make the 10 flip the dice set one half turn. You need to know what is on the other side of the dice at all times, it will help you set the dice faster, and if you are having a problem making you point, all it might take is that little flip of the dice to make your point!

Remember that most tables will give you an automatic buy on any 4 or 10 bet on one green chip. Never complain about making 4’s and 10’s learn to work with what you are making!

I hope this will help you out!

Thanks for your post!! Good info below, let me rip it a part a bit…

basicstrategy777 - 02 August 2010 11:19 AM

You can do this by regressing or saying same bet…...you can do this by making early come bets to serve as a partial hedge…...
You can do this by playing both sides of the line i.e. DP and/or DC,  coupled with placing the 6/8. Always start with minimum bets and spread and than increase bets. With all 6 numbers covered you have a 66% chance of hitting a box number on every throw of the dice. 2 out of 3 odds ain’t bad.

I see the advantage, and disadvantage though of playing a come bet. I would most certainly only try while I held the dice, but have yet to slap my money down in the box as I enjoy the fact I can place the 5,6,8,9 and regress them at any time.  I have thought about playin DP/DC along with placing the 6/8, but never really reviewed much about the hedging to the point I would play both and of course remember the stats while in play.  (Guess i should run a few tests before using that method?)

I like even numbers and you can get back all 4 place bets with 2 hits,  with a same bet on 4/10 and a regress when 6 or 8 hits.
I like the 4/10 and it comes up the same number of ways as the 7.

Now this had me confused at first—are you saying that all the ways to make a 4 AND 10 would = the same ways as the 7?
That is if I were to put money on both the 4 and 10, rather than just buying one. at a $10 min table, I usually always leave my 6/8 @$12 press that is rare, which I need to do to maximize profit and then regress or come down from the number altogether if I am getting tired

The only chance you have is to get onto a winning streak and ride it. You just need one, but you have to be there and not get knocked out early.  Taking some profit, calling off bets based on superstitions, and regressions will help you come away from a long roll with profit.

How often have you been on ‘a winning streak’—what would you consider a winning streak? consistency, hitting multiple points, or to roll for a certain length of time? Not really sure here, but that will help add to all aspects of my game.

Thanks

You asked for advice/suggestions…...I gave you some.

IMHO, the most important thing at the table is conservation of buy-in. Early losses are a killer and hard to get back. For this reason, I gave you some holding/hedging strategy’s to play initially, to use until the table turns; there are others. Your beginning strategy is critical. You can morph into your more traditional right/wrong style of play once the table “shows” you the direction it is going. This is the Art side of the game.

I told you to have a reason for everything you do. There are many good reasons to play the come bet, especially initially. To say you cannot turn your flat bet off is weak as most of the come bet will be odds. Do a Ben Franklin close on the come bet….reasons for VS. reasons oppose…..come betting is a strong way to play, although I eventually convert those bets to place later in the roll.

You bet inside numbers yet the 4/10 makes more money than the 5/9 even though it comes up less.

There is no one way/right way to play. I’m sure you will figure it out.

Good luck

777

Thank you for the advice and suggestions - both of you. 

Always good to have someone else critique or send along a review from their own game to add to mine.