Hi, I’m new to casino craps after playing for many hours on an internet simulator.  Unfortunately the simulator may have given me some bad habits that caused confusion during a recent visit to Foxwoods.  Also, it’s much easier playing by yourself then with 12 other players.  I’m just a casual player with a $100 buy-in.  Here are some questions on table conduct.

After the come out roll I like to place the 6 and 8 and then make several come bets.  If the 6 hits I like to take my place bet and winnings and use it as 2x odds on the new 6 come bet.  That way I get bet slightly better odds and take the change off the table.  This happens with a single click on the simulator but was confusing when I asked the dealer to do it.  My questions are: is this a smart play and worth the trouble?  If so how do I clearly and quickly get the dealer to execute?  Is this type of move annoying to dealers and other players?

Also, if you’re confused about how the dealer is handling your bets, it is proper to get them to clarify?  While in the middle of a hand the dealers rotated and my new dealer was not nearly as skilled as the one before.  In fact, as clumsy as I was he was much worse.  The other dealer needed 1/3 the time between rolls and this dealer needed lots of help from the stickman.  He was also Asian and not as able to speak English well.  His first action was to reposition all the bets on his board, which immediately confused me but since none of the other more seasoned players didn’t complain I didn’t either.  A moment later he took my $5 come bet and moved it to the 8 spot, which was fine, and then he placed a $25 odds bet (not mine) on top.  Now I know I should have spoken up then, but again I was confused and I guess I hoped that the odds bet was for me.  Of course when the 8 hit he paid the guy standing next to me and I lost $10.  To me that’s a cheap lesson and probably what I deserved for 1) not speaking up and 2) trying to weasle a free bet from the dealer.  My question is when I saw the $25 chip what should I have done? And if the player next to be claimed that the $5 come bet was his, how should I have responded?  After that hand I tipped the dealer $5 and left the table (the $5 was for the previous dealer who, while making fun of me was pretty helpful)

Finally, on tipping:  In my very brief experience I have gotten some useful help from the dealers, reminding me to make fire bets, asking if I wanted odds, etc.  I have tipped them as I leave the table, but now I realize it might be better to tip earlier.  Any advice for the small time player like me?

Thanks, this forum is very helpful.

No one can tell you you are not playing the correct way. Everybody has their ‘way’. The longer you play the more your game will evolve. With a 100 dollar buy in you are in a difficult position as you can get wiped out quickly. You cannot afford much bad luck. Your 100 is against what is in front of the box. They have many more bullets so you must hit and run. Your initial bets on the table should be about 10% of your buy in.

It is your money. You bet anyway you want. The dealers are there to serve you and do what you say RE: bets. You should bet at the proper time (when dice are in center of the table), your come bet should be placed directly in front of where you are standing, tell the dealer what you want to do with your bet as he is paying you, be clear in your instruction to him, using the word ‘each’ when placing multiple bets makes things clear. ‘Each’ is an important word. Your bets are placed in relation to where you are standing at the table, know where that is on the felt.

Dealers make mistakes for you and against you. Tip them early. You will find they appreciate it and will reward you in many ways. If betting for them, say player control or piggy-back your bet on top of your bet , as opposed to placing their bet next to yours.

Do your thing, enjoy the game and don’t be greedy.

Good lick.

777

I like to take my place bets down early in on in my evening then as I win more I leave them up longer. I usually only play the 6+8 and as I get used to the table and warm up my arm I’ll apply the winnings to the 5+9 and If I’m on a streak (lol) to the 4+10 or I’ll bump the 6 or 8 up to $30.

But like the guy before me said - it’s your cash do what you will. Tip early, tip often - I’ve had the stick man return the dice to me in a 3V set b/c of the tip.

I like to be polite to them and address them as “sir” and “mam.” I notice I get a few breaks here and there for being a controlled shooter, (less heat + they get to know your betting style) not that I’m amazing or anything, when I address them “Sir - 6 & 8 please.” and place the chips on the table instead of throwing them at them.

You are an elite exception, SIR.

I’ve never seen a $100 player address the dealers with “sir”, “mam”. Most of them are quite annoying at the table when they frequent “a dollar hard six, hard eight”, “a dollar 12”, reach out to put 5 bucks at field at the last moment before the dice out; these guys are pain in the ass to the dealer as they don’t spend much money, but require a lot of attention and work to take care of.

I think a player with 100 bucks being that polite is pretty funny.

Craps god

crap god - 15 September 2010 02:36 AM

” these guys are pain in the ass to the dealer as they don’t spend much money, but require a lot of attention and work to take care of.”

Even as a much lower-level player, if I ever get that vibe from a dealer I’m leaving the table. If it happens another time or two, I’m taking my “pain in the ass” action to a more hospitable establishment, one that seems to be more interested in staying in business.

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

After the come out roll I like to place the 6 and 8 and then make several come bets.  If the 6 hits I like to take my place bet and winnings and use it as 2x odds on the new 6 come bet.  That way I get bet slightly better odds and take the change off the table.  ...  My questions are: is this a smart play and worth the trouble?  If so how do I clearly and quickly get the dealer to execute?  Is this type of move annoying to dealers and other players?

The phrase you seek is, “Down with odds.”  This move is quite common, should annoy no one, and is definitely worth the trouble since you are getting paid the true odds of 6:5 instead of 7:6.

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

Also, if you’re confused about how the dealer is handling your bets, it is proper to get them to clarify?

Definitely.  As others have said, it’s your money until the bet loses.  “Which bets are mine?” or “What action do I have?” are perfectly valid questions.

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

While in the middle of a hand the dealers rotated and my new dealer was not nearly as skilled as the one before.  ...  His first action was to reposition all the bets on his board, which immediately confused me but since none of the other more seasoned players didn’t complain I didn’t either.  A moment later he took my $5 come bet and moved it to the 8 spot, which was fine, and then he placed a $25 odds bet (not mine) on top.  Now I know I should have spoken up then, but again I was confused and I guess I hoped that the odds bet was for me.  Of course when the 8 hit he paid the guy standing next to me and I lost $10.  To me that’s a cheap lesson and probably what I deserved for 1) not speaking up and 2) trying to weasle a free bet from the dealer.  My question is when I saw the $25 chip what should I have done? And if the player next to be claimed that the $5 come bet was his, how should I have responded?

As you surmised, when the quarter appeared on your odds bet you should have immediately said something like, “That’s my Come bet but not my odds.”  As for what to do if the other player also claims the flat bet, you should demand a review of the tape.  Don’t feel bad for not doing so, however.  I once was playing beside a junket player, one for whom the casino had paid transportation and RFB in return for a promised amount of action, who was making continuous $5 Come bets.  I made $5 Come bets only occasionally, and on one such occasion the junket player started to make her bet but stopped when she noticed $5 already in the Come box.  Before I could tell her that was my bet the dice rolled and the result was 7.  When the dealer paid that last Come I picked up the cheques and the lady squawked.  The dealer sided with the higher roller, and I handed over my $10.  I later thought that what I should have done, after handing over the $10, was get right back in the dealer’s face, put another $10 on the table, and demand a tape review, saying, “Here’s the price of admission.  If I’m right you pay me, which will give me only what I deserve; if I’m wrong put this on the rail.”

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

Finally, on tipping:  In my very brief experience I have gotten some useful help from the dealers, reminding me to make fire bets, asking if I wanted odds, etc.  I have tipped them as I leave the table, but now I realize it might be better to tip earlier.  Any advice for the small time player like me?

My suggestion is to tip as you go to get friends in the right places should a dispute arise, like over who owns a Come bet, and in gray areas, like late calls for action.  Tipping as you leave is certainly appreciated as well, and is equally effective if the dealers recognize you as a regular player.

Thanks for the tips skulker!
jimi

The previous posters are absolutely correct, it’s your money, it’s your game plan, play it YOUR way. “Going down with odds” is a solid strategy, generally.  If you find yourself interacting with a weak dealer, first try explaining what it is you expect him to do for you, clearly. Be persistent, but have a little patience also. It sounds like you weren’t explaining that you wished to go “down with odds” or else he didn’t understand what you wanted due to language issues. Some communication snafu. Additionally, if the dealer is a “break in” or rookie, try to work with him. Professional dice dealers don’t evolve in a couple of shifts.  It takes at the minimum or 2 or 3 years training in a busy store to turn out a adequate dealer, able to handle virtually every situation that comes up..  Unfortunately, there is a class of lazy, poorly trained, hyper-sensitive dealer within the profession ( we call them “lumps” here in Reno ) who have got as good as they’ll ever be. You’ll either have to work around his incompetence, enlisting the other dealers or box man’s help or bail out and move to another table if you’re unable to resolve any issues. Don’t allow your anger at a dealers weakness put you on tilt and knock you off your game plan.

As for tipping, I used to just throw out a hard number “for the boys” or leave a tip at the end of my session.  Now, I will put a pass line bet next to mine every now and then for the dealers.

lets realize these guys are working for in some cases less than minimum wage and most of their money comes form tips. that being said many a dice player are rude and ignorant to other players and casino workers..  i guess their 43 dollars thrown into the table from behind 5 other people gives them the right to treat others badly.  so any thing you can do to make the job of a craps dealer easier is appreciated.  if you are playing on a busy table know what you are doing.  most dealers are capable of doing anything you ask of them as long as you speak up and speak at the correct time.  if you are standing next to the guy working the numbers and you are shouting out commands when he is paying the first guy in line dont be suprised when he asks you again when he is paying your bet.  have patience.  lastly… craps dealers want to deal craps and nothing else.  how many of us want to put up with the shit that we see on dice games for a living.

JimiJazz, as a craps dealer, I hope I can give you some assurance that you definitely did nothing wrong. You’re down with odds bet when you have a come bet is quite normal and should definitely not leave any dealer flustered or confused.  Like the other posters said, it is your mmoney, and you have the right to play it the way you want. We are trained to deal with inexperienced players, and this dealer should’ve helped you a lil bit more. I myself work at MGM at Foxwoods, and I agree some of our dealers (esp. the Asian dealers, not racist, just a fact) do have some language barriers that sometimes prevent a smooth game. We talk about this all the time in the break room, but there is nothing we can do about it.  If you’re still a little uncomfortable, try stepping up to a not so busy game where the dealers have the time to help you out a lil more. At a rammin jammin game, sometimes we’re dealing with 8 players bets at a time, and we just don’t have time to help out a newbie.
As for your come bet with the $25 misplaced odds, absolutely speak up! Especially if a dealer is just tapped on base, that is when those mistakes are more likely to happen, as a dealer usually needs a minute to figure out everyplayer. Don’t be afraid to speak up, we won’t take it personal (at least they shouldn’t) and it actually helps us to catch a little mistake early rather than trying to fix a big mistake later.
As for tipping, I guess I’m a little biased on this, but I would suggest whenever you win, give all your winnings to the dealers, as we have total control over the dice when you win, but when you lose, it is because of flawed playing.  HAHAHA just joking.  Seriously though, it is nice to get a tip when you’re done playing (after you win of course), but also keep in mind to throw in dollars on the hardways or even on the pass line next to your bet while you are playing. This lets us know that you are aware we work for tips. While most of us try to treat all players nicely, that extra dollar up for us while you’re playing should get u treated a lil nicer. You’d be surprised how many times a player forgets to put their odds behind the pass line, and the point hits right away. For that non-tipper, it’s “Too bad buddy, odds is a self-service bet and you gotta pay attention to your bets”. For the guy that’s been putting up dollar hardways for us, I can lean into my box person and tell him “This guys been playing 2X odds the whole time he’s here. Can we pay it for him?” often the answer is yes.

Hope I was helpful. Come over to MGM next time you’re at Foxwoods, it’s a lot smaller, but from what I’ve heard, we are friendlier.

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

Hi, I’m new to casino craps after playing for many hours on an internet simulator.  Unfortunately the simulator may have given me some bad habits that caused confusion during a recent visit to Foxwoods.  Also, it’s much easier playing by yourself then with 12 other players.  I’m just a casual player with a $100 buy-in.  Here are some questions on table conduct.

After the come out roll I like to place the 6 and 8 and then make several come bets.  If the 6 hits I like to take my place bet and winnings and use it as 2x odds on the new 6 come bet.  That way I get bet slightly better odds and take the change off the table.  This happens with a single click on the simulator but was confusing when I asked the dealer to do it.  My questions are: is this a smart play and worth the trouble?  If so how do I clearly and quickly get the dealer to execute?  Is this type of move annoying to dealers and other players?

Also, if you’re confused about how the dealer is handling your bets, it is proper to get them to clarify?  While in the middle of a hand the dealers rotated and my new dealer was not nearly as skilled as the one before.  In fact, as clumsy as I was he was much worse.  The other dealer needed 1/3 the time between rolls and this dealer needed lots of help from the stickman.  He was also Asian and not as able to speak English well.  His first action was to reposition all the bets on his board, which immediately confused me but since none of the other more seasoned players didn’t complain I didn’t either.  A moment later he took my $5 come bet and moved it to the 8 spot, which was fine, and then he placed a $25 odds bet (not mine) on top.  Now I know I should have spoken up then, but again I was confused and I guess I hoped that the odds bet was for me.  Of course when the 8 hit he paid the guy standing next to me and I lost $10.  To me that’s a cheap lesson and probably what I deserved for 1) not speaking up and 2) trying to weasle a free bet from the dealer.  My question is when I saw the $25 chip what should I have done? And if the player next to be claimed that the $5 come bet was his, how should I have responded?  After that hand I tipped the dealer $5 and left the table (the $5 was for the previous dealer who, while making fun of me was pretty helpful)Finally, on tipping:  In my very brief experience I have gotten some useful help from the dealers, reminding me to make fire bets, asking if I wanted odds, etc.  I have tipped them as I leave the table, but now I realize it might be better to tip earlier.  Any advice for the small time player like me?

Thanks, this forum is very helpful.

1st off - why would want to tip a dealer who just screwed you - mistakenly or otherwise - Of course - IF the mistake is in YOUR favor - that’s a whole ‘nother ball game -

2nd - I would have spoken up immediately - if not sooner - when the dealer started to move the place/come bets around -

      This can be accomplished innocently enough - ” What numbers am I on ” -  ” I was on the x for $x - what happened to my bet ” -

3rd - Generally, I would make $1 bets for the dealers on the TOP of my place bets - telling them - ” My Control ” -

      This essentially means that they take the win ( which is rounded up from $1 to $2 - AND the ORIGINAL bet stays up - till I take it down or its lost to the 7 out -

4th -  You can duke / tip the dealers right at your buy-in -  AFTER getting your chips / cheques - throw the dealers $x - telling them ” In case I happen to forget later -

        this is for the crew !”

      You will more than likely not find that #3 and #4 work in places that you are just starting to play in - you will be recognized as ” one of the boys ” -

    AND that will go a long way with the crew and the suits -  and your comps - and tolerance to your ” short ” rolls , etc .....
     
    ” Do unto others as they would do unto you - BUT - Do it first ” !

    IIRC someone, sometime, some place told me ” Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - BUT do it first ” !

rudeboy99 - 26 March 2012 02:52 PM

....  Unfortunately, there is a class of lazy, poorly trained, hyper-sensitive dealer within the profession ( we call them “lumps” here in Reno ) who have got as good as they’ll ever be. You’ll either have to work around his incompetence, enlisting the other dealers or box man’s help or bail out and move to another table if you’re unable to resolve any issues. Don’t allow your anger at a dealers weakness put you on tilt and knock you off your game plan.

rudeboy99 -

When I was in the Army in Basic Training ( Feb ‘67 in Fort Knox, KY ) - these people as you describe were relegated to the ” Fat Boys’ Platoon ” -

Where they received the proper ” motivization ” to accomplish the needed tasks required to make it thru Basic Training -

I can still hear my DI’s sweet, loving voice say to our platoon - ” I am here to hep (sic) you trainee - now drop down and give me 25 ” - push-ups - that is -

And I was RA - I joined up - what’s wrong with that picture !!!!!!!!!

Please - do not mis-interpert the above -

I WAS NOT in the ” FAT BOY’S PLATOON ” -

I can only imagine how many push-ups thoses dudes had to do to cut the mustard !

$nakeEye$ - 19 May 2012 05:35 PM

jimijazz - 11 September 2010 06:29 AM

Hi, I’m new to casino craps after playing for many hours on an internet simulator.  Unfortunately the simulator may have given me some bad habits that caused confusion during a recent visit to Foxwoods.  Also, it’s much easier playing by yourself then with 12 other players.  I’m just a casual player with a $100 buy-in.  Here are some questions on table conduct.

After the come out roll I like to place the 6 and 8 and then make several come bets.  If the 6 hits I like to take my place bet and winnings and use it as 2x odds on the new 6 come bet.  That way I get bet slightly better odds and take the change off the table.  This happens with a single click on the simulator but was confusing when I asked the dealer to do it.  My questions are: is this a smart play and worth the trouble?  If so how do I clearly and quickly get the dealer to execute?  Is this type of move annoying to dealers and other players?

Also, if you’re confused about how the dealer is handling your bets, it is proper to get them to clarify?  While in the middle of a hand the dealers rotated and my new dealer was not nearly as skilled as the one before.  In fact, as clumsy as I was he was much worse.  The other dealer needed 1/3 the time between rolls and this dealer needed lots of help from the stickman.  He was also Asian and not as able to speak English well.  His first action was to reposition all the bets on his board, which immediately confused me but since none of the other more seasoned players didn’t complain I didn’t either.  A moment later he took my $5 come bet and moved it to the 8 spot, which was fine, and then he placed a $25 odds bet (not mine) on top.  Now I know I should have spoken up then, but again I was confused and I guess I hoped that the odds bet was for me.  Of course when the 8 hit he paid the guy standing next to me and I lost $10.  To me that’s a cheap lesson and probably what I deserved for 1) not speaking up and 2) trying to weasle a free bet from the dealer.  My question is when I saw the $25 chip what should I have done? And if the player next to be claimed that the $5 come bet was his, how should I have responded?  After that hand I tipped the dealer $5 and left the table (the $5 was for the previous dealer who, while making fun of me was pretty helpful)Finally, on tipping:  In my very brief experience I have gotten some useful help from the dealers, reminding me to make fire bets, asking if I wanted odds, etc.  I have tipped them as I leave the table, but now I realize it might be better to tip earlier.  Any advice for the small time player like me?

Thanks, this forum is very helpful.

1st off - why would want to tip a dealer who just screwed you - mistakenly or otherwise - Of course - IF the mistake is in YOUR favor - that’s a whole ‘nother ball game -

2nd - I would have spoken up immediately - if not sooner - when the dealer started to move the place/come bets around -

      This can be accomplished innocently enough - ” What numbers am I on ” -  ” I was on the x for $x - what happened to my bet ” -

3rd - Generally, I would make $1 bets for the dealers on the TOP of my place bets - telling them - ” My Control ” -

      This essentially means that they take the win ( which is rounded up from $1 to $2 - AND the ORIGINAL bet stays up - till I take it down or its lost to the 7 out -

4th -  You can duke / tip the dealers right at your buy-in -  AFTER getting your chips / cheques - throw the dealers $x - telling them ” In case I happen to forget later -

        this is for the crew !”

      You will more than likely not find that #3 and #4 work in places that you are just starting to play in - you will be recognized as ” one of the boys ” -

    AND that will go a long way with the crew and the suits -  and your comps - and tolerance to your ” short ” rolls , etc .....
     
    ” Do unto others as they would do unto you - BUT - Do it first ” !

    IIRC someone, sometime, some place told me ” Do unto others as you would have them do unto you - BUT do it first ” !

Got to love a little more “tolerance” on those short rolls…..hahahaha

Greatest 7 Shooter ...

I was refering to the ” occasional / inadvertent ” short roll -

Not the occasional / inadvertent ” legal roll ” !