I noticed an interesting twist while I was in Vegas.  There were several gamblers from hawaii (not just one group, some indivdual and some in small groups) playing craps.
The thing is, what my grandfather taught me about controlled throws, and what you read in the books and on the web, well… keep some but toss some.
DI’s like stick left/right.  Hawaiians seem to prefer to shoot from the end.
Hawaiians seem to prefer the hardway set (though a few will be caught doing the 3-V)
They don’t seem to have much concern over the toss, some sling the dice, some toss, but none seem to worry about kissing the back wall, hit it and let the dice fall where they may.
Over a weekend of watching, they seem to do pretty well.  I tried it and I’m thinking they may be onto something.
If any of you find yourselves shooting from the end, or stick-left/right isn’t working, give it a try.
I’m not talking about one-time sets, I’m talking the same guys consistantly getting high rolls.

I am sure all   Hawaiians dont roll the same way JUST SOME

Maybe I am East Coast Hawaiian because I am most effective at the ends too.

Your Hawaiians may take the same approach to precision shooting that I do.

I combine two principles for my throw.  In bowling most bowlers aim for the spots on the lane rather than the pins themselves, the idea being that it is easier to hit a target that is close than one that is far away.  I therefore try to get the dice to land on a flat trajectory just past the prop area so they will roll, ideally on axis, to the base of the far wall.  When they bounce, many times they will hit the flat part of the rubber, above the pyramids, thereby preserving the axis of rotation.

The other principle is from golf: it is easier to take a full swing than a partial one, so in some instances golfers will intentionally play a shorter shot than they could in order to be able to hit a full club to the green on the next shot.  Hence, my preferred shooting position is down the right side (usually close to the hook), although I am not that uncomfortable standing next to second base (on the left side).  Being right-handed I can take a full arm swing either place.  If adjustments are required to get the dice to hit the wall properly I try to make them to my position rather than my throwing motion.

” SharpShooter ” says in his book that the best positions to have influence over the outcome of a toss is as close as you can get to your target.

His parrallel was comparing pitching a baseball from the pitcher’s mound as oppossed from second base.

As it is much easier to hit your target from close in ( the pitcher’s mound - SR -2 or SL 1-2 ) wth practice you can achieve the same results from 2nd base ( Hook, Table End ).

You will receive much less heat from table end and / or hook than you will from Stick 1 or 2.

I need the vision of the whole table because if I aM at a bad spot and next to a big person and cant see or move my arms for a decent roll I am screwed and will just play DP against myself till I get a spot.I wonder if the Hawaiians that played are the same?

Hardeight - 14 April 2011 02:49 PM

I need the vision of the whole table because if I aM at a bad spot and next to a big person and cant see or move my arms for a decent roll I am screwed and will just play DP against myself till I get a spot.I wonder if the Hawaiians that played are the same?

Pretty much what started me noticing them anyway was that they tended to no take a spot on the side even when the supposed best spot was wide open.  Always standing at the end.  Sometimes only one, sometimes a group (up to 4) all wedged in together on the end.  And their tosses varied, but they were consistant with good rolls.
Theres got to have been something but all I could see was the hardway set.  I tried it and had mixed results.  I’ll have to experiment.
One other thing I noticed was even though they had consistantly long rolls, they appeared to be losing money.  But I think that was bet/money management.  They didn’t ease up when others were throwing, and they did place some ridiculous mounts on odds with an otherwise cold table, and lots of hardway bets (hardway set too, when they were throwing).
The last night I was there one of them was just about out of chips when i had a good roll with alot of points and hardways.  He colored out with 2,300 ... I was apparantly hitting his bets.

I as well, had a 35 minute roll from the end; when I stood stick right 1, I could not hit jack! 7-out, 7-out, 7-out.

jeremiahj - 16 April 2011 09:31 AM

I as well, had a 35 minute roll from the end; when I stood stick right 1, I could not hit jack! 7-out, 7-out, 7-out.

Actually, from my experimenting around on my table, I believe thats sort of what those guys were working at as well.  basic Dice Influencing tells us that if you are highly skilled that the 3-V set is best because it only has one 7-out if both dice stay on axis, but that the hardway set is better for beginners because its more forgiving if one die goes off axis.
Ok, 3-V = 1 7-out with both on axis or two 7-outs with one off axis.
Hardway = 2 7-outs with both on axis or 1 7-out with one off axis.
As Alan would be happy to tell you, the dice are 4 times more likely to go one off axis than both on axis.
Basic DI to work on preventing double pitches, and throwing in a way that possibly gives more 1-off axis than both on axis (or both off) seems a pretty smooth concept.
I wish I had been in analytical mode while I had them to observe, but if memory serves me right, the best were actually throwing from the back side, not middle… but throwing to the backwall center, so both die, after impact would be spinning together instead of oppsite directions (like hitting the pyramids straight on can do).
Their tosses were not precision tosses, basicaly grab the dice and toss to the end-center. 
I think I’ve aboout got these guys figured out and I just get more and more impressed.