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I have noticed in just about all of my trips that if I start out losing, I will lose my entire bankroll but if I start out winning, I will go home up. On those losing days when it just doesn’t seem like anything is coming up what is the best way to change strategy?
I usually play with $200-$250 on a $10 table, PL, 1X odds early (will go to 2X on 6/8 if winning) and the occasional side bet ($1 Hardways, $1 yo, $12 place the 6/8, $10 Come). I figure when I am 50-60% through my roll it is time for a change. I have tried the Dark Side and continued losing on the DP line. Anyone have advice on how to stop the bleeding? Do I just need to stop playing every shooter and be more patient?
The math people will say it is all random…blah,blah blah. ergo, it doesn’t make any difference.
The craps player understands that good/bad streaks/trends happen and you might be in one.
First of all I think you are underfunded for your style of play. But to your question I would say this.
If something is not working you must change what you are doing. Start at about 30 percent loss. You can change
from betting right to betting wrong….you can change tables…....you can change your style of betting to include greater hedges…...you can minimize your betting and become very conservative…...you can quit…....you can change games….....
you mentioned patience; to bet on every shooter is a mistake and the shooter should qualify before betting on him. If you haven’t been qualifying the shooter you could start doing that….....when down 50% you can take 100% of what you have left and bet it in the field; that 50% bet can bring you back to 100% oif your buy-in. ” Well, do you feel lucky…..well do ya punk.”
There are many ways to handle a steady decline and what you do depends on your personality and how you see things.
I have noticed in just about all of my trips that if I start out losing, I will lose my entire bankroll but if I start out winning, I will go home up. On those losing days when it just doesn’t seem like anything is coming up what is the best way to change strategy?
I usually play with $200-$250 on a $10 table, PL, 1X odds early (will go to 2X on 6/8 if winning) and the occasional side bet ($1 Hardways, $1 yo, $12 place the 6/8, $10 Come). I figure when I am 50-60% through my roll it is time for a change. I have tried the Dark Side and continued losing on the DP line. Anyone have advice on how to stop the bleeding? Do I just need to stop playing every shooter and be more patient?
You should be more patient and dont bet on every single person some people just cant shoot!!!You should play the donts if you get a vibe that the person cant shoot.Also start thr 5 roll count to qualify for potential hot shooters.
When trying to solve a problem, ALL possible solutions/options should be placed on the table no matter how outlandish they are.
The best way to get a good idea is to get many ideas.
The field bet was one option and can solve your problem. The question becomes does it fit your profile….do you value a slow death over instantly being made whole…..can you handle the loss, psycologically…....would you rather rip the bandage off or peel it off slowly…...the field bet creeps into the category of a good bet with a triple payout on 12 & double payout on 2 ( 2.77 % HA ).........
I am not saying the field bet idea is good or bad ; I am just putting out there as an option.
If I am down to my loss limit at a craps table, sometimes I take a green chip and go to the blackjack table and bet it. I try to parlay it for 4 hands. Once I left the table with 1250, betting 100 dollars a hand ( after winning 4 hands in a row) till I lost.
Gambling is funny…....you really never know. To quote Gloria “Sometimes when you win, you really lose, and sometimes when you lose, you really win, and sometimes when you win or lose, you actually tie, and sometimes when you tie, you actually win or lose. Winning or losing is all one organic mechanism, from which one extracts what one needs.”
when down 50% you can take 100% of what you have left and bet it in the field
I thought the field bet is 1 of the bad bets since the house vig is high.
Its only a bad bet if it loses
I’ve had field bets rescue me on a few occasions, but I wouldn’t suggest them as a regular bet.
But next time you’re at a casino, even if not betting, count how many times the field will hit in a row. It can amaze you, especially the regularity of multiple hits. I used to see seven in a row quite often.
The dark side is the no-fields are even more regular.
...when down 50% you can take 100% of what you have left and bet it in the field; that 50% bet can bring you back to 100% oif your buy-in.
And later ...
basicstrategy777 - 21 June 2011 07:23 AM
...the field bet creeps into the category of a good bet with a triple payout on 12 & double payout on 2 ( 2.77 % HA ).
House advantage is almost always cited as the justification for selecting or rejecting a particular betting strategy, but it is a measurement of long-term expectation. The situation being addressed here is for a single bet or series of bets to recoup losses in one fell swoop, not many thousands of bets or series over a prolonged period of time, and so the probability of winning a single coup is more important than the house advantage thereof. See http://midnightskulker.casinocitytimes.com/article/whats-the-best-bet-on-the-table?-57356 for a more thorough discussion.
As for the original question on how to stop the descent when you find yourself in a handbasket, my preference is to change the environment. Sometimes leaving the scene of the accident convinces me it’s time to get out of Dodge straight away. Or I might seek solace in the coffee shop where, far from the maddening crowd’s ignoble strife, and with cooler head, I can review the accident and formulate a plan to reverse my fortune—which may also lead to getting out of Dodge. If I’m not ready to take a break I will usually change games, or at the very least, tables.
basicstrategy777 - 20 June 2011 01:32 PM
The math people will say it is all random…blah,blah blah. ergo, it doesn’t make any difference.
Señor Sevens is correct, but by rebooting the experience I can start over with a positive attitude. What do I do if the dark cloud follows me around? Well, casino pits don’t have windows, but all casinos have doors.
Thanks for all of the input. I guess my problem is that I know people are making money at the table even when I am losing. If playing the PL/DPL with odds isn’t working, what is the exact opposite? Field bet? Placing numbers?
Thanks for all of the input. I guess my problem is that I know people are making money at the table even when I am losing. If playing the PL/DPL with odds isn’t working, what is the exact opposite? Field bet? Placing numbers?
Ok, heres the lowdown. If you are playing the passline and losing, and others are making money, are they also playing the passline? Or don’t pass?
Most people who play regularly that I’ve noticed tend to play either the place bets or come bets. takes more money but you increase your chances of hitting.
Downside is when you get a seven you lose it all, and that can hurt alot.
Watch what those winning are doing. Betting too little on a hot streak can be as hard on you as being stuck in a cold streak while betting too much.
If you are playing and losing the first question is what are you playing and why are you playing it?
You must have a reason for choosing that play or is it because it’s what you always do? A reason is better than a mechanical approach.
If you have a reason or reasons and still lose you need to pull back and rethink the what and why of your actions because it’s not right, at least not now.
If you can’t detect what’s off and adjust you should be holding off risking money until you can.
Sometimes causes are just beyond our perception. Things change, they always change. You just need enough patience not to be betting when you’re against the current.
Patience like common sense seems to be in short supply at the Craps tables.
First of all I think you are underfunded for your style of play. But to your question
777 is right, almost IMO.
“I think” should be removed.
The OP IS underfunded!
I recently helped a high roller see why he was experiencing the same kind of session results. After he understood the whys he went back to his ugly style of play of over betting his bankroll. His reason was it was boring to make smaller bets or to have less action.
One can lead a horse to water…
For some numbers on playing with a $200 bankroll with 10% average bets see Alan’s Blog at Wizard of Vegas HERE Some good reading.
Your occasional side bets pushes up your bets to 20% of your bankroll. The OP IS now WAY underfunded!
That is a PERFECT formula for a very high risk of ruin- bankroll bust.
Problem with just about ALL Craps players is that they want a low buy-in, lots of action and want to cash out a winner over 90% of the time. That universe (I call “la la land”) is a very hard one to find and stay in!
The “key” is to size your bet(s) to your bankroll and win goal for each session.
It actually is as simple as that. Well without talking about the “types” of bets. edge and variance etc.
Only 3 variables to work with.
Of course only advanced math formulas or computer simulations will tell you the proper ratios to use to increase your chances of a win and decrease your chances of ruin. While only considering bankroll and bet size, 2.5-3% should be the total bet (action) at any one time to have the risk of ruin in a very low range. If you don’t like those numbers than get used to losing more sessions than winning.
Sad to say, the more sessions one plays, the closer the percentages get to the math numbers when you keep making the same bets over and over again. Most do not believe or want to believe that. So be it.
But, The beauty of Craps is you do have choices of bets as 777 has pointed out many times.
In Blackjack one can only bet on their hand to win. Would be nice to bet that the dealer hand would win. That would be a cool game.
Even a few math experts say the Big 6 wheel can be beaten IF you can predict which half the wheel will show with a 60% success rate or higher. Hmmm.
Can one apply the same principle to Craps?
Sounds like a good subject for a new thread.
If you staked 10 people to 1000 each at a 5 dollar table and they all were Right bettors, at the end of 2 hours
some would be winning money, some would be losing money, some would be winning big, some would be losing big, some would be down alittle, some would be up a little, some might be even.
If you took the same 10 people and repeated this 100 times I bet you would find , on average, the same people in the same positions….1 thru 10. At this stage in your craps career you would probably be near the bottom.
Luck evens out and cream rises to the top. The HA gets everyone, but some more than others. Some people are good craps players and others just are not.
On another board I tried to make a template of what the casino’s call a ‘tough player’. What qualities does this player have ?
No offense, but you sound like someone just starting out. It take alot to extract the most out of this game. It is a tough game to beat. It will take some time but if you put in the time ..........in playing, in reading, in examinimg yourself, you will do better than most.
I guess my problem is that I know people are making money at the table even when I am losing.
Are you sure they are winning? On a cruise to nowhere out of Madiera Beach, FL, I saw a lady appear to be making money hand over fist betting every variation of the horn there was. $110 IIRC on every roll, and she had a stretch of several consecutive winners that gave her a very impressive rack. (Um…let me rephrase that. There were an impressive number of black chips in her chip rack, although come to think of it…well, never mind.) She ended up tapping out, but those $800 hits caught everyone’s eye.
A more likely scenario is one involving place bettors who cover every number and press after every hit. They get a few hits, but when Dugan arrives and takes all of their action the reality is they lost money on the hand.
desktoptang - 21 June 2011 11:43 AM
If playing the PL/DPL with odds isn’t working, what is the exact opposite? Field bet? Placing numbers?
IIRC you bet only P/DP w/odds, no other numbers. If other players really are winning while you are not, then you need to look at why they are winning. If it’s because established line points are not making while other point numbers are being thrown, then switching to Come/DC might be in order. If nothing else skipping the comeout roll is a roll on which you have no action upon which the house advantage can act. OTOH if natural losers are the culprit (i.e. you just can’t seem to get any traction because point winners are followed by a natural loser or two) then hedging, much as I don’t like it, may be the answer. By dampening variance you’ll be able to hang in there a little longer, maybe long enough for a reversal of fortune. Finally, as Basic Sevens suggested, bet the way the winners are betting. At least that way you’ll have company if you lose.
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