Linda and I did quite a bit of ” Detective work ” on our last few trips to Atlantic City -

The following is gleaned from notes that Linda took down at my direction -

It covers all the AC casinos - table sizes, table quantities, side bets allowed and table height from floor to top of chip rail - where applicable and / or noted -

Bally’s Park Place - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables -

Bally’s Wild Wild West - 1 ( one ) 14 foot table - Fire Bet -

Borgata - 8 ( eight ) 14 foot tables and 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail height approx. 36 ” from the floor -

Caesar’s -  11 ( eleven ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Golden Nugget - 2 (two ) 12 foot tables -

Harrah’s - 6 ( six ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Hilton - 5 ( five ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Showboat - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables and 1 ( one ) 12 foot table ” House of Blues ” - Fire Bet -

Resorts - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36 inches off floor -

Taj Mahal - 10 ( ten ) 12 foot tables - chip rail high approx 38-39 inches off floor - High side rails -

Tropicana - 4 ( four ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - chip rail 35 - 36 ” off floor -

Trump Plaza - 3 ( three ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36” off the floor -

I stand 5’10 - 5’11 - my belt buckle / waist is approx 39 ” off the floor -

Some tables have a higher than ” average / normal ” chip rail height-

Makes a difference to me and I am sure to people that are shorter than I -

Thought this might be of interest !

Awesome detective work!

Jacob make this a STICKY post or push-pin it.

$nakeEye$ - 13 October 2011 04:57 PM

Linda and I did quite a bit of ” Detective work ” on our last few trips to Atlantic City -

The following is gleaned from notes that Linda took down at my direction -

It covers all the AC casinos - table sizes, table quantities, side bets allowed and table height from floor to top of chip rail - where applicable and / or noted -

Bally’s Park Place - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables -

Bally’s Wild Wild West - 1 ( one ) 14 foot table - Fire Bet -

Borgata - 8 ( eight ) 14 foot tables and 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail height approx. 36 ” from the floor -

Caesar’s -  11 ( eleven ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Golden Nugget - 2 (two ) 12 foot tables -

Harrah’s - 6 ( six ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Hilton - 5 ( five ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Showboat - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables and 1 ( one ) 12 foot table ” House of Blues ” - Fire Bet -

Resorts - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36 inches off floor -

Taj Mahal - 10 ( ten ) 12 foot tables - chip rail high approx 38-39 inches off floor - High side rails -

Tropicana - 4 ( four ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - chip rail 35 - 36 ” off floor -

Trump Plaza - 3 ( three ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36” off the floor -

I stand 5’10 - 5’11 - my belt buckle / waist is approx 39 ” off the floor -

Some tables have a higher than ” average / normal ” chip rail height-

Makes a difference to me and I am sure to people that are shorter than I -

Thought this might be of interest !

This info is helpful.
However, additional info like what kind of felt material, description of type of bounce, if dealers or pit boss was “surly”, etc. would be great too.

RFB1 - 13 October 2011 06:12 PM

$nakeEye$ - 13 October 2011 04:57 PM

Linda and I did quite a bit of ” Detective work ” on our last few trips to Atlantic City -

The following is gleaned from notes that Linda took down at my direction -

It covers all the AC casinos - table sizes, table quantities, side bets allowed and table height from floor to top of chip rail - where applicable and / or noted -

Bally’s Park Place - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables -

Bally’s Wild Wild West - 1 ( one ) 14 foot table - Fire Bet -

Borgata - 8 ( eight ) 14 foot tables and 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail height approx. 36 ” from the floor -

Caesar’s -  11 ( eleven ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Golden Nugget - 2 (two ) 12 foot tables -

Harrah’s - 6 ( six ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Hilton - 5 ( five ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Showboat - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables and 1 ( one ) 12 foot table ” House of Blues ” - Fire Bet -

Resorts - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36 inches off floor -

Taj Mahal - 10 ( ten ) 12 foot tables - chip rail high approx 38-39 inches off floor - High side rails -

Tropicana - 4 ( four ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - chip rail 35 - 36 ” off floor -

Trump Plaza - 3 ( three ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36” off the floor -

I stand 5’10 - 5’11 - my belt buckle / waist is approx 39 ” off the floor -

Some tables have a higher than ” average / normal ” chip rail height-

Makes a difference to me and I am sure to people that are shorter than I -

Thought this might be of interest !

This info is helpful.
However, additional info like what kind of felt material, description of type of bounce, if dealers or pit boss was “surly”, etc. would be great too.

Okay -

I thought that I covered those items in prior posts -

ALL ATLANTIC CITY Casinos and Mt. Airy and the Sands, Bethelem -

EXHIBIT the EXACT same bounce characteristics - they have the same size pyramids and the same size dice -

The ” Felt Material and Underlayment ” is exactly what you observed at the Sands - when they changed the layout -

One just needs to touch the table to ascertain if there is any additional padding under the layout -

For an example -

Scope out the BlackJack tables - press on them with your fingertips - spongy -

Press on ANY craps table in AC or the Poconos with your fingertips - firm -

Regarding ” heat ” from the dealers and/or pit - it is non-existant -

They are extremely tolerable - regardless whether you are tipping or not -

I have yet to hear ANYONE being instructed that they must hit the back wall -

I do not know at this time if there is anything else that I can add -

If so - give a shout !

$nakeEye$ - 13 October 2011 06:24 PM

RFB1 - 13 October 2011 06:12 PM

$nakeEye$ - 13 October 2011 04:57 PM

Linda and I did quite a bit of ” Detective work ” on our last few trips to Atlantic City -

The following is gleaned from notes that Linda took down at my direction -

It covers all the AC casinos - table sizes, table quantities, side bets allowed and table height from floor to top of chip rail - where applicable and / or noted -

Bally’s Park Place - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables -

Bally’s Wild Wild West - 1 ( one ) 14 foot table - Fire Bet -

Borgata - 8 ( eight ) 14 foot tables and 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail height approx. 36 ” from the floor -

Caesar’s -  11 ( eleven ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Golden Nugget - 2 (two ) 12 foot tables -

Harrah’s - 6 ( six ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Hilton - 5 ( five ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - Fire Bet -

Showboat - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables and 1 ( one ) 12 foot table ” House of Blues ” - Fire Bet -

Resorts - 4 ( four ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36 inches off floor -

Taj Mahal - 10 ( ten ) 12 foot tables - chip rail high approx 38-39 inches off floor - High side rails -

Tropicana - 4 ( four ) 14 foot tables and 2 ( two ) 12 foot tables - chip rail 35 - 36 ” off floor -

Trump Plaza - 3 ( three ) 12 foot tables - chip rail approx 36” off the floor -

I stand 5’10 - 5’11 - my belt buckle / waist is approx 39 ” off the floor -

Some tables have a higher than ” average / normal ” chip rail height-

Makes a difference to me and I am sure to people that are shorter than I -

Thought this might be of interest !

This info is helpful.
However, additional info like what kind of felt material, description of type of bounce, if dealers or pit boss was “surly”, etc. would be great too.

Okay -

I thought that I covered those items in prior posts -

ALL ATLANTIC CITY Casinos and Mt. Airy and the Sands, Bethelem -

EXHIBIT the EXACT same bounce characteristics - they have the same size pyramids and the same size dice -

The ” Felt Material and Underlayment ” is exactly what you observed at the Sands - when they changed the layout -

One just needs to touch the table to ascertain if there is any additional padding under the layout -

For an example -

Scope out the BlackJack tables - press on them with your fingertips - spongy -

Press on ANY craps table in AC or the Poconos with your fingertips - firm -

Regarding ” heat ” from the dealers and/or pit - it is non-existant -

They are extremely tolerable - regardless whether you are tipping or not -

I have yet to hear ANYONE being instructed that they must hit the back wall -

I do not know at this time if there is anything else that I can add -

If so - give a shout !

I believe you are wrong.  Some tables bounce differently.
You can’t just use your finger tips to press, have you ever tried to drop a quarter or something small in size and density similar to a casino die on the Mt. Airy table, it bounces like the Parx table and the bounce at Parx is like the bad tables at Showboat and yes, Showboat has 2 different types of bounce - trust me.  Harrah’s tables also has the same type of “bouncy-ness”.

It looks as if we can cross off some of our lists the $5 table that Bally’s used to run at the Claridge. They aren’t even keeping any chips in the locked plastic container at the boxman’s place. Maybe they’ll bring it back in the spring or summer.

  Deleted - see below !

Problem posting response !

$nakeEye$ - 13 October 2011 06:24 PM

RFB1 - 13 October 2011 06:12 PM

I believe you are wrong. Some tables bounce differently.
You can’t just use your finger tips to press, have you ever tried to drop a quarter or something small in size and density similar to a casino die on the Mt. Airy table, it bounces like the Parx table and the bounce at Parx is like the bad tables at Showboat and yes, Showboat has 2 different types of bounce - trust me.  Harrah’s tables also has the same type of “bouncy-ness”.

RFB1 -

This is not the 1st time that you have stated this -

Initially, our observations were to lay to rest and dispel any use of ” Micro - Fiber ” and/or any additional ” foam ” under the lay-out which would make the tables “super-bouncy ” -

All AC and PA casinos appear to have a felt lay-out applied either directly to the wood base material - OR - the addition of a very thin muslin / or similar material applied over the wood sub-strate -

Just as you observed at the ” sands ” when they changed the lay-out while you were present -

HOWEVER -

While at Taj this Sun and Mon past - having met “DiceController” and his wife - and having shot briefly with the both of them -

I had to give the Taj ” some play ” because of the comped rooms - this was Sunday late evening -

While watching me throw - Linda remarked - and I initially brushed the comment aside - ” This table seems more ‘bouncy’ than the ones at ShowBoat ” -

Subsequently,  Linda, DiceController,  and I after meeting and shooting at the Plaza - along with DC’s wife - strolled down the boardwalk to SB - whereupon we played for a bit - then DC left because he had a 3-4 drive south -

Shortly after he left - Linda - had a fantastic roll -  was nick-named “LuckyLady” by the male and female players at the table -

Threw the ” 8 ” seven times on her come-out rolls for the hand and made the point 6 times -

Unheard of - they should revise the Fire-Bet to include 6 ” Same Points ” OR ” 6 Unique ” points -

ANYHOW -

We also observed similar table ” bounce ” conditions at Mt. Airy last evening -

A lot of ” splatter and chaos ” once the dice hit the table -

NOW COMES THE $64,000 QUESTION -

ALL THINGS being equal - table layout material, underlayment material , dice and table and pyramid material -

ALL the same -

What is the cause for the difference in the reaction to the dice upon hitting the table !

Initially, as I said before I was primarily concerned with ” spongy ” layouts -

This is not the case -

Just prior to posting this response -

I was throwing on my practice rig with my thumb ALL the way DOWN on the back of the dice - as opposed to half-way down -

I am looking at have the dice “stop” on impact with the felt to minimize / negate the ” chaos encountered ” -

My position for shooting is straight out - so throwing ” softer ” is a non-issue -

Any comments on this would be most welcome -

Astute observations RFB1 !

ALSO - some casinos have changed their tables - ACH no longer has the 12’ ers - only 14’ers / and GN has Four (4) 12’ tables -

I love to play at the Golden Nugget for two reasons: the crew is outstanding, and usually there is a $5 table during the week.
Don’t know about the weekends.
I did not see any info in your report about table minimums.

Fred

FredP - 10 December 2011 10:23 AM

I love to play at the Golden Nugget for two reasons: the crew is outstanding, and usually there is a $5 table during the week.
Don’t know about the weekends.
I did not see any info in your report about table minimums.

Fred

No, you did not and will not -

Casino table minimuns change constantly - depending on the day of the week, hour of the day, etc.

Table X in Casino A could be $5 at 9AM - $10 at 2PM - $15 at 6PM - $10 at 10PM and $5 at 12 Midnight !

How can one effectively / accurately state what the table mins are - you can’t !

$nakeEye$ - 10 December 2011 11:11 AM

FredP - 10 December 2011 10:23 AM

I love to play at the Golden Nugget for two reasons: the crew is outstanding, and usually there is a $5 table during the week.
Don’t know about the weekends.
I did not see any info in your report about table minimums.

Fred

No, you did not and will not -

Casino table minimuns change constantly - depending on the day of the week, hour of the day, etc.

Table X in Casino A could be $5 at 9AM - $10 at 2PM - $15 at 6PM - $10 at 10PM and $5 at 12 Midnight !

How can one effectively / accurately state what the table mins are - you can’t !

Actually you can…..to a relatively reliable degree.

I know I can always get a $10 table at the Borgata monday through thursday any time day or night.  I have never seen a $5 table at Borgata.

Same is true of Ballys. It is generally true at Wild Wild West except there may occassionally be a $5 table during the day. .

These are the three places I play the most and I have always found this to be true when I was playing regularly a about a year ago.  If someone plays regularly at another place or another day, they can probably give you advice with similar reliability.

You are right that casinos can change a given table any time they want. But I have not found major variations in their patterns.

The golden touch website has an article link called Current Craps Conditions that brings up a spreadsheet like page.  This lists most of the casinos in the country. You can look up table lengths and table minimums there.

Alas, the page was last updated in March ‘11. But, it may be a good starting point for others looking for those minimums.

I’m planning on carrying the AC portion when I visit in 9 days.

I have several goals, one of which is to scope out table minimums and table bounciness, as well as practicing my toss. 

One goal will be to track down ol’ $nakeEye$ in the SO position of the table in one of those joints! 

Anyone have a diagram of the table positions you can play? I am hearing if you ar right handed you should play SL and if you are LH you should play SR?
Any comments?

peteydogg - 13 December 2011 07:08 AM

Anyone have a diagram of the table positions you can play? I am hearing if you ar right handed you should play SL and if you are LH you should play SR?
Any comments?

There isn’t really an official diagram of positions for players.  It’s all about who else is at the table when you are there.  If a really big guy next to you is “SL1”, then is SL2 really SL2 for the purposes of DI?  For dealers, they estimate your position at the table based on how they think other players would fit at the table around you.  For this purpose, they do have some standards as to positions… let me know if you want that explained.  There are no set shooting positions, and if the table is empty, you can shoot from wherever you want. 

I’m not what you might call a dice controller - but from what I understand, if you are right handed, “SL1” is supposed to be an optimal position because your release point will be the closest to the back wall that it can be.  But I’m sure there are some players that like to shoot from straight out, for example.  Perhaps it’s because they get a better view of where they are aiming… I don’t know… you’d have to ask them.  I think $nakeEye$ likes to shoot from that position.

Again, I’m not a dice controller… but I would think that if you are trying to work on a consistent throw, you should do it from whichever position accomplishes that goal - not from where someone says you should throw.  Just understand that table conditions change, so your favorite shooting position may have to change as well.  This is probably another advantage of shooting right next to the stickman - assuming same table lengths and average sized dealers, the distance to your landing zone will be rather consistent.

You should also keep in mind that if you smoke… there is a fair (but not certain) chance that you will not be able to smoke in any position that is next to a dealer.

peteydogg - 13 December 2011 07:08 AM

Anyone have a diagram of the table positions you can play? I am hearing if you ar right handed you should play SL and if you are LH you should play SR?
Any comments?

Peteydogg

Here is a link that is an excellent description of the various positions on the craps table.

        http://www.diceinstitute.com/2007/01/craps_table_layout.html

Plus, there are pictures….......Unlike the magazines that I read as a teenager.  They were read just for the “articles”.

EagleDice

kaysirtap - 13 December 2011 07:38 AM

For dealers, they estimate your position at the table based on how they think other players would fit at the table around you.

From my observations and conversations with dealers I gather dealers use the section of the rail where the player puts his/her chips to determine where to place that player’s chips in the number boxes.