Probaby because in all the time that you were at the craps table and never saw anyone work that type of deal -

Could very well be because it’s unethical in my opinion -

And undermining and possibly jeopardizing the casino industry -

Which in today’s economy - is fragile enough -

Additionally,

How long do you seriously think that you would last in that - or any other casino - for that matter -

Once they got wind of your antics at the table -

You are their competition for those few meager dollars -

They will cut your heart out and yours balls off in a heart-beat if they thought for one inkling you were going to cut them out of a dime !

Never forget that !

They will smile to your face - and stab you repeatedly in the back when you turn around !

$nakeEye$ - 10 November 2011 10:32 PM

Probaby because in all the time that you were at the craps table and never saw anyone work that type of deal -

Could very well be because it’s unethical in my opinion -

And undermining and possibly jeopardizing the casino industry -

Which in today’s economy - is fragile enough -

Additionally,

How long do you seriously think that you would last in that - or any other casino - for that matter -

Once they got wind of your antics at the table -

You are their competition for those few meager dollars -

They will cut your heart out and yours balls off in a heart-beat if they thought for one inkling you were going to cut them out of a dime !

Never forget that !

They will smile to your face - and stab you repeatedly in the back when you turn around !

I don’t know if I’d call it unethical… but I agree with everything else you said.  Okay, they probably wouldn’t be cutting anything out or off, I suppose.

Anyway, I did say that you would have to be discreet about this type of arrangement.  As far as doing this on a regular basis… probably wouldn’t happen.  But the stage is set for this type of scenario very frequently, so it just surprises me that I have not seen it at least once.

kaysirtap - 10 November 2011 09:53 PM

$nakeEye$ - 10 November 2011 09:36 PM

Okay -

So what is the point in going to the casino ?

Save your gas money , stay off your feet - pop open a cold one -

After all is said and done - and your calculator will bear this out -

You broke even -

So what’s YOUR point in this betting method / strategy -

You can achieve the exact same results ( without the 12 on the CO factor ) by standing at the table and watching people bet !

I am confused !

Perhaps I missed something in your original post or elsewhere along the line !

Yes, that is true… except the 12 on the CO factor is huge.  The 12 on the CO factor is the basis for the entire idea.  You may think that it’s only 1 of 36 combinations of the dice, but that single combination on the come-out is enough to swing the edge into the player’s favor if it pushed on the Pass or paid on the Don’t Pass.  If the casino said to me that they’ll ignore the 12 on the CO… or pay me for it on the don’ts, I’d be in front of a craps table right now instead of this computer.  You wouldn’t even have to worry about dice control if that was the case.

Wouldn’t it make sense to whisper to this guy, “hey, let’s just make these bets between ourselves, and we’ll both push on a come-out 12”?

 

I think I follow what it is you are wanting to do.  But…  I think the casino would kick you out if they found out you are booking your own bets on the floor (probably some kind of law for this too).

So here’s my suggestion:  If you find a player that bets the Don’t Pass, invite him to a private game off the floor.  Get some dice and book your own game.  Nobody bets on the come out.  When the point is established then you take odds on the point and the other guy lays odds (being sure to keep them proper).  You win, he pays you. He wins, you pay him.  House edge, EEE-liminated!

idoc - 11 November 2011 07:17 PM

I think I follow what it is you are wanting to do.  But…  I think the casino would kick you out if they found out you are booking your own bets on the floor (probably some kind of law for this too).

So here’s my suggestion:  If you find a player that bets the Don’t Pass, invite him to a private game off the floor.  Get some dice and book your own game.  Nobody bets on the come out.  When the point is established then you take odds on the point and the other guy lays odds (being sure to keep them proper).  You win, he pays you. He wins, you pay him.  House edge, EEE-liminated!

Again… this arrangement would require a certain amount of discretion.  Also again… I did not intend this to be the ultimate strategy for playing Craps.  I just thought it was weird that I had not noticed anyone trying to make this kind of arrangement before. 

As for your suggestion, this probably equates to $nakeEye$ suggestion of staying home and popping open a cold one.  With no bet on the come-out (and no flat bets afterwards, I assume), this would be a completely fair game for both sides.  And although I used the word “eliminate” in the original thread topic, my original suggestion would actually give you an advantage while offering the other guy no difference as compared to what he can get from the casino (minus the rating).

kaysirtap - 12 November 2011 02:07 AM

Again… this arrangement would require a certain amount of discretion.  Also again… I did not intend this to be the ultimate strategy for playing Craps.  I just thought it was weird that I had not noticed anyone trying to make this kind of arrangement before. 

As for your suggestion, this probably equates to $nakeEye$ suggestion of staying home and popping open a cold one.  With no bet on the come-out (and no flat bets afterwards, I assume), this would be a completely fair game for both sides.  And although I used the word “eliminate” in the original thread topic, my original suggestion would actually give you an advantage while offering the other guy no difference as compared to what he can get from the casino (minus the rating).

I think no one does it because it would be difficult to execute.  How would you know when the other guy wants to bet and how much?  How would you keep track of the bets?  What if there is a dispute?

Too much could go wrong IMHO, although I like your thinking.  Finding any advantage in this game always helps.

kaysirtap - 12 November 2011 02:07 AM

Again… this arrangement would require a certain amount of discretion.  ...  I just thought it was weird that I had not noticed anyone trying to make this kind of arrangement before.

With both the Oddman’s Bet and another advantage play I have seen advocated but not named—buying an established Don’t bet, usually on 6 or 8, from a player wishing to take it down—the bet itself remains on the table and is payed by the house.  The chips are in plain sight.  The only element of trust is that the player who officially owns the bet will give the other player his/her due.  Were two players making mirror image bets to agree to make these bets between themselves there would be no chips on the table, and therefore no physical evidence of what the bets were or for how much they were.  This could lead to some nasty arguments.  I personally would never make such an agreement with a stranger.

There’s also the matter of logistics.  The two players would have to be making exact mirror image bets, and probably be standing next to each other, and they would have to trust each other, and one of them would have to be the sucker while the other was the suckee.  Not an impossible combination, but surely an improbable one.

I don’t know about ya’ll, but the last thing I want to do at a dice game is BREAK EVEN! Although a couple of players could rack up some MAD comp points with the game plan above, comp points ain’t what I’m after if I buy in at a game…I only beg for ‘em after busting out…lol!