The following can be applied to many sports and I thought it might have relavence to you dice controllers.

http://cheapfrisbees.com/mentalGame.html

777

It certainly does. Thanks 777.

This is a huge part of the game thats why I don’t take alot of stock on practicing on home made tables and such because without all the people moving around and dealers trying to break your timing or get you to throw this dice different it is a completely different animal then in the privacy of your own home. 

One that really tests me is when the stick slides you the dice and midway slides them back to him while the dealer recounts some small BS chip stack bet (like he forgot how much 36 dollars is or some obivious BS).  It’s just a timing breaker.  Now every time you see this yell out “stick is icing the shooter”  or if this happens to you just call for the dice and yell it.  You are allowed to yell at a dealer or stickman when you think they are shorting you are cheating you.  You cannot however use any foul language while doing this or your gone.  But it can be done.

If it appears you are really focused and “aiming” the dice and you start winning expect the dealers to start in on you, then followed by the box man and then finally the pit boss giving you instructions.  This usually happens when you are shorting the wall and winning.  I have covered this plenty of times in my posts on this forum.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

One that really tests me is when the stick slides you the dice and midway slides them back to him while the dealer recounts some small BS chip stack bet (like he forgot how much 36 dollars is or some obivious BS).  It’s just a timing breaker.

No, it’s not.  You just think it’s a timing breaker. 

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

Now every time you see this yell out “stick is icing the shooter”  or if this happens to you just call for the dice and yell it.

Please don’t do this.  This will not get you the dice any faster.  You will only succeed in pissing people off and adding fuel to the superstitious fire.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

You are allowed to yell at a dealer or stickman when you think they are shorting you are cheating you.

Actually, you are not.  You are encouraged to call attention to a situation in which you may have been underpaid, but you are under no circumstances allowed to yell at anyone.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

You cannot however use any foul language while doing this or your gone.  But it can be done.

If you want the casino employees to treat you with respect, I would suggest that you treat them with respect as well.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

If it appears you are really focused and “aiming” the dice and you start winning expect the dealers to start in on you, then followed by the box man and then finally the pit boss giving you instructions.

Employees on the gaming floor are not against you.  You will not experience “heat” from front-line employees like dealers just because you are winning.  However, it is not uncommon that players receive less than the best customer service when dealers feel as if they are not being treated nicely. 

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 05:56 AM

This usually happens when you are shorting the wall and winning.  I have covered this plenty of times in my posts on this forum.

If you are shorting the wall, then you are not complying with the casino’s requirements for a valid throw of the dice.  Expect that casino employees will ask you to adjust your throw regardless of whether you are winning or losing.  It is not because dealers, floor supervisors, or pit bosses are against you or don’t want you to win.

everything you just wrote is wrong.

It has been proven that when a player gets hot at craps, blackjack, anything the house starts to do whatever they can to break his timing.

And secondly gambling is a form of entertainment that you are paying for and like any other service that comes with that paid entertainment you have a right to show your displeasure for that service.  As long as no foul language or verbal threats are used you can yell not scream but yell right at one of the dealers for a mistake they made and the house can do nothing about it except correct the error and tap out the dealer.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 10:28 PM

everything you just wrote is wrong.

No, it’s not.  I’m fairly certain that I know more about the casino business than you do.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 10:28 PM

It has been proven that when a player gets hot at craps, blackjack, anything the house starts to do whatever they can to break his timing.

What you are referring to is known as “heat”, and while it has been known to exist when it comes to advantage players, but otherwise in some smaller market casinos, it is most often just a false perception by people like you who think that everybody in the casino is against them.  You sound like so many other people who like to blame losses on outside factors…  “Every time the dice hit the chips…” and other beliefs like that.  If you think you’re catching heat because you are shorting the wall with the dice, that would be like catching heat from a restaurant because they asked you not to sit on the floor while you eat.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 10:28 PM

And secondly gambling is a form of entertainment that you are paying for and like any other service that comes with that paid entertainment…

Yes, and just as most other business, casinos make money by creating loyal customers… not by trying to screw with people.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 24 December 2011 10:28 PM

...you have a right to show your displeasure for that service.  As long as no foul language or verbal threats are used you can yell not scream but yell right at one of the dealers for a mistake they made and the house can do nothing about it except correct the error and tap out the dealer.

Like I said, you are encouraged to call attention to a situation in which you believe an error was made.  Do you yell at everybody in the service industry that makes mistakes?  If you get the check in a restaurant and something is not right… maybe they added it up wrong, or the price was different than in the menu… do you start yelling at people?  Maybe you have a different definition of the word “yell” than I do.

G7, I don’t know where you gamble.  If your casino is really applying heat to its customers, then that is a shame.  But you made blanket statements about the casino industry as a whole that are simply not true.  You delivered a message that said that it was okay to mistreat casino employees within reason because you believe they are conspiring to get into your head, or doing whatever it takes to make you lose.

I do not think we need to go into the differences of a min pass line bettor going on a 5 point 25-30 toss roll and someone like myself of has a min of 1-3k on the table when I am shooting the dice to understand that a roll like that can get ugly for the house quick. And you would have to be a complete idiot not to think the craps box man and bit poss are going to let you control tempo of the there game and kick there ass at the same time.  Wrong they are going to control temp and slow your roll and try everything they can to mess with your timing, head, or anything else they can get to.  It’s just business.

On the other side of that it’s just business for me as well.  I am paying for entertainment and if I feel my entertainment is being altered I feel I have a right to voice that and i do.  And it’s not about superstitions (except dice off the table and new dice = 7 out) I live by this one.  My game due to my betting limits is a different game than the normal players due to amount the house can loose so I get actually Heat more than the next all day everyday.  When you bet like a high roller and have the bankroll and the credit to do some serious damage to the house you are treated different.  If you have not tried this then I recommend it and it should not be hard to notice the difference.

G7 -

You can bet your sweet bippie - that the house does indeed notice when an advantage player even appears to influence their bottom line -

They will hold back nothing to ensure that they are not compromised in the slightest way -

I have been there and done that - with BlackJack - the means and methods which are employed by the casinos are down-right illegal -

But the fact of the matter is - we are a guest in their house - and we need to remain on their good side as opposed to being on their ” unwanted ” list -

  “When in Rome ............................. ” !

G7, indeed, casinos tend to treat players with high action differently than other customers - but with the exception of some superstitious casino management, this treatment is actually better for the high rollers.  Successful casino management knows that keeping these high rollers happy and loyal will make the casino money in the long run. 

If you bet as much as you say you do, and you find that you catch heat wherever you go… then perhaps you should start to question why you’re not being treated as a valued customer instead of insisting that all casinos will “try everything they can to mess with [a high roller’s] timing, head, or anything else they can get to.”  Why does heat follow you, but not some other high rollers?  Could it be that you like to yell at the dealers and claim they are trying to mess with you?  Is it because you like to short the wall with your dice throws?  Who knows.

Simply winning, betting large amounts, or the combination of the two is not enough to catch heat in most casinos.  There has to be a different reason… and perhaps this reason explains why you are winning.  Advantage play?  Dice control?  Card counting?  This will catch heat.

kay,
    I understand the logic but the house loves loosing high rollers not high winning percentage high rollers.  Just ask Kenny Packard.  From what I read the welcome mat is not rolled out for him.  And of course Archie can’t get a craps game anywhere in the world besides probably the horseshoe.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 26 December 2011 02:13 PM

kay,
    I understand the logic but the house loves loosing high rollers not high winning percentage high rollers.  Just ask Kenny Packard.  From what I read the welcome mat is not rolled out for him.  And of course Archie can’t get a craps game anywhere in the world besides probably the horseshoe.

Okay, but why is Kerry Packard a high winning percentage player, and why can’t Archie find a craps game to play?

because they both have won to much from the house to risk it.  And Kenny has billions in reserve so you can see how the house max limits do not scare someone like that and in my opinion turn the edge over to the player.

Kay you do know who Archie “the greek” Karas is right?

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 26 December 2011 02:34 PM

because they both have won to much from the house to risk it.  And Kenny has billions in reserve so you can see how the house max limits do not scare someone like that and in my opinion turn the edge over to the player.

I understand that… but how did they win?

by beating the house over and over again. 

Remember the house wants to beat you out of your 500 buy in from the 99%ers in the casino.  The are scared of the 1%er who is a max table bettor.  Out of 9 people at the table and you have a 1%er and someone goes on a run, well the house could loose it’s entire quarter earnings on one chicken feeder who rolls for 45 mins.  That’s why.

the random chicken feeder might turn his 500 bucks into 5k and think he is on top of the world.  That 1%er just hit the house for 10 mil.

Greatest 7 Shooter in the World - 26 December 2011 02:50 PM

by beating the house over and over again. 

Remember the house wants to beat you out of your 500 buy in from the 99%ers in the casino.  The are scared of the 1%er who is a max table bettor.  Out of 9 people at the table and you have a 1%er and someone goes on a run, well the house could loose it’s entire quarter earnings on one chicken feeder who rolls for 45 mins.  That’s why.

the random chicken feeder might turn his 500 bucks into 5k and think he is on top of the world.  That 1%er just hit the house for 10 mil.

Ok, what I should have asked you was, “what kind of heat did they catch from casinos?”  You haven’t told me how the gaming personnel tried to screw with them.  What you are describing with Archie and Kerry is not what we were discussing.  Refusing your business for any reason is not the same as casino employees trying to screw with you.

It is true, some casinos occasionally can’t or don’t want to handle the action of a very big bettor.  This does not translate into doing things to try to make you lose.

I have explained what I have seen in my own time in earlier posts in this thread.  I guess are betting amounts differ enough to see 2 different sides of the craps staff.