I am somewhat reluctant to post on this thread due to some of the history between the various dice control training camps. Frankly, I grew tired of the whole thing and took a couple of years off from the seminar business - primarily because I was fed up with some of the associated BS. When I cranked up my current forum and tip-toed back into the seminar business this year I decided I would not go negative on comments about the other camps and I will stick by that. There is a “History of Dice Control” from my point of view over on my forum. Anyone interested in that can register on the site at http://www.axispowercraps.com/crapsforum to gain access to the members only section, where the post resides.
Here’s what I will say about GTC. I know many of the principles of that group personally and have stepped up to the tables with most of them at one time or another. Several of them have attended my classes and Dice Coach’s classes through the years - primarily “under the radar. There are some great shooters in their organization. Some are better than others. All of them, like all DI’s, have good sessions and bad sessions. It’s the nature of the game.
There are some things I don’t like about GTC based on things I’ve been told by players who have attended their classes. One is their pricing structure. I’m of the opinion they charge to much for their seminars. That’s my opinion. Others my be okay with their rates and that’s fine. I tend to be something of a spendthrift, so my thinking is influenced by that.
I have heard many players complain that there is no consistency from coach to coach in the GTC seminars - especially when it comes to the toss they teach. Some players have told me that they came away from the seminar confused as to what was the proper way to throw the dice because they witnessed so many different toss styles among the coaches. Personally, I am not a fan of “cookie cutter” toss training. On the other hand, when you’re dealing with new or relatively new players you do need some consistency in your approach.
I’ve heard other complaints about their training. On the other side of the coin, some of the better shooters I know came through their camp. At the end of the day - I think it comes down to a matter of personal choice on these deals.
I have no problems at all with Dice Coach and his program. Beau and I have done many seminars together through the years. The tosses we teach are virtually identical with the exception of the fact that Beau usually teaches the one-finger grip and I teach a three finger grip. Highly recommended.
I have no knowledge of the Dice Ninja guy beyond what I’ve seen on YouTube. I will have to reserve judgement on his program.
I have re-entered the Craps Seminar business in a small way. Where I was doing 8 - 10 seminars a year back in the good old days - I’m limiting myself to 3 - 4 classes a year now. Typically you’ll see me do two classes in Vegas, one in Biloxi, and one in Tunica, Mississippi over the course of the year. I like to do Biloxi early in the year when the oysters are best. Yeah, there are other things in life than dice control. I usually follow that class with a Tunica class in May, concurrent with the World BBQ Championships in Memphis. Starting to see a trend here? Normally I’ll do a Vegas class in the Summertime - when the temperature is up and the prices our down. Then I do a Fall session in Vegas - usually in mid-October.
One of my Mississippi seminars typically runs $399 - $499 per person. That’s a full day in the dealer school and a live casino session with the coaches on day 2. Note that I have no problem with the concept of stepping up to the table with the folks who sign on for my seminars. Not everyone in this business will do that. In fact, most will not.
When I do Vegas classes the structure is somewhat different. Typically I’ll do joint deals with other well-known DI’s/Coaches like Irishsetter, Maddog, and Dice Coach. I set these classes up in three-hour sessions, doing 4 - 5 sessions over the course of a weekend. Players can sign on for 1, 2, or as many sessions as they want. They are menu-priced and there’s typically a discount if you sign on for multiple sessions. Normally we do these for around $369 for one session - $695 for two - $995 for three, etc. On these weekends the primary focus is dice control, however I always do at least one session on betting strategies. Maddog and Irishsetter usually do a joint session on how to get the most our of the free BoneTracker software program Maddog developed. From time to time I’ll also do a Craps Boot Camp team play session.
My official position is that I do not teach a cookie cutter toss. I take what a player brings to the seminar and tweak it as needed to get the most out of what he’s been working with without making wholesale changes. That’s because whenever you make major changes to your grip or toss it pretty much sets you back six months or so in your development. In some cases, where a player’s grip or toss is so bad that there’s just nothing there to work with, we’ll go back to the basic toss I teach, which is with the 3 finger front grip - tossed from the deck as opposed to using the pendulum toss taught by others.
I’ve compared the from-the-deck toss to the pendulum toss many times. The biggest problem with the pendulum toss is that as soon as you pick the dice up off the table you introduce additional variability in spatial relationships between the dice and the table. The dice are no longer square with the deck when you pick them up. They are probably not square with the back wall. And because your perspective is skewed looking down your arm at the dice - you can’t correct these problems without a second set of eyes watching and coaching. The from-the-deck toss eliminates all that and makes for a much simpler throw.
So there you go. Different strokes for different folks. Any of them will work. It all depends on what you’re looking for.