While observing craps at a local casino, I observed a bet that I have never seen before. The person placed a bet on the actual white line on the pass line and appeared to place their odds on top of the original wager. What is this bet called?

When someone sets thier bet on the white line of the pass line, it is actually just a place bet.  You see their is a dealer control place bet and a player control place bet.  What a player can do, is choose to wait until the point is established to start making bets, or bet on the come out roll.  The person you saw, decided to wait until the point is established and then make place bets afterwards.  The player had the option of giving the dealer money and having the dealer place his bets by him on top, where the point numbers are marked or he can take the proper amount of money and place it on the white line to cover the point.  The money you saw was covering the point.  You place the larger denominations on bottom and smaller on top.  Then you offset the chips and set them on the white line.  This way you can press, regress,  or remove your bet at anytime without going through the dealer or even talking.  Thats whats called player control.  A lot of casinos are getting away from allowing this bet.  They are forcing players to give the dealer control when they want to cover the point through a place bet.  So for example, when the point is a six lets say, If i wanted to bet 44 inside.  I would give the dealer 44 dollars and tell him “44 inside, including the point”, or i would give him 32 dollars and tell him “32 inside”, and then place 12 dollars on the white line and then i have a 12 dollar place bet on the six, which is player controlled.  You can onlyl have player controll on the point.  The offset chips werent odds, they are just offset so the dealer can count the amount of chips you bet, so he can pay off faster.  Just like the dealer would offset them if he had control.  I hope this helped.

The original poster did not say whether the other chips were of a different denomination. If they were not, then I suppose that was what is called a “put bet”, which is a pass bet made after the point has been established. Of course, there is a large disadvantage to a put bet, because you have missed the 8:4 advantage of the comeout roll. However, if the odds multiple is high enough, it can still yield a lower HA than the equivalent place bet, because the odds bet has no HA.

$10 put bet, plus $100 odds on the 5, pays $160
$110 place bet on 5 pays $154

I have never heard of a “player-controlled” place bet, but, then, there are lots of things I haven’t heard of.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Im not so sure that different denominations of chips differentiates between a player controlled place bet or a put bet.  Someone could very well have made a player controlled place bet on a 5 or 9 for 15 dollars.  In this case the denomination would most likely all be 5 dollar chips.  They are offset because it mimics the offsetting that the dealers do when they make the place bet on the point for you.  Usually it is the first chip that is set and the rest offset, with the larger denomination on the bottom.  This makes it easier to count the amount of the wager. 

Put bets definately have a disadvantage if you are making them right when a point is established.  Depending on how much your initial wager is, a place bet is going to pay out more money.  A player might as well get that 2 to1 advantage on the comeout if they are going to risk the flat bet for even money.  Put bets are commonly used however to allow a player to bet more than table max.  If table max is 5000 and a player wants to bet more, than he can switch his place bets to put bets which allows a lower flat bet wager and increased odds.  For example a 50 dollar flat with 5000 odds on a 5 or 9 pays 7550, a 5050 dollar place bet would pay 7070.  However, with a 3x, 4x, 5x, odds table, it is highly unlikely that a put bet is going to pay out more than a place bet of that value.  Usually 100x or 500x odds are where you will see a player switch their place bets to put bets.  Players usually switch their place bets to put bets when monetarily it will benefit them.  400 for the 4 and 10, 150 for the 5 and 9, and 360 for the 6 and 8.  This way the player also has a 10 dollar cushion because of the risk of losing the flat bet on the come out roll.

Sure the example given from newbie17 may have been a “put bet”.  Most likely it was not.  I have made put bets before, and I have never made a “put bet” nor have i seen a put bet that was not placed in the box for its given number, so that it can be dealer controlled.  Most casino’s also will not allow a put bet unless it is a 10x odds or higher table.  The only bet i have ever seen with offset chips on the actuall white line of the pass line, is a place bet, which at that time is player controlled.

But like goatcabin said, i definately have not seen everything.

I have always heard the bet you describe called a line place, and as lucky4688 and goatcabin have said, it is a place bet on the established pass line point.  The chips are offset—the official term is heeled—to distinguish it from a flat pass line bet.  I suspect some casinos disallow this bet, requiring the dealer to set it up in The Forbidden Zone (i.e. the dealer’s work area) to keep players from taking a shot by claiming they had made a line place when in fact their bet was a regular pass line bet, perhaps after their chips got scattered by the dice.

By the way the odds multiple after which it is better to make a put bet than a place bet is 5x for 6 and 8, and 4x for the other numbers.
    $5 flat with $20 odds on 4/10 pays $45; $25 placed on 4/10 also pays $45.
    $5 flat with $20 odds on 5/9 pays $35; $25 placed on 5/9 also pays $35.
    $5 flat with $25 odds on 6/8 pays $35; $30 placed on 6/8 also pays $35.

midnight,

very good post…i learned a few things i never knew before..  I never heard it called heeled before.  Nor have i ever heard of line place.  Thats nice to know some of the terminology.  Never knew those two.  And yes you are 100% right, i didn’t explain that, but most casinos do not allow the “line place” bet because of the possibility of dishonest players switching their bets and trying to cheat the casinos. 

As far as the put bet math.  I used a 10 dollar flat and 100x odds.  Also, i used the 10 dollar cushion in my math because of the risk of losing the flat bet on the come out.

4 AND 10

10 DOLLAR FLAT AND 390 ODDS PAYS 790, AND A 400 DOLLAR BUY BET PAYS 780 WITH THE VIG

5 AND 9

10 DOLLAR FLAT AND 140 ODDS PAYS 220, AND 150 DOLLAR PLACE BET PAYS 210

6 AND 8

10 DOLLAR FLAT AND 350 ODDS PAYS 430, AND 360 DOLLAR PLACE PAYS 420

The monetary benefit to where a put bet benefits you more over a place bet changes when you lower the amount of your commited even money wager.  I never did the math on 5 dollar bets.

One difference between put and place bets that we haven’t mentioned, at least on this thread, is that once a put bet has been in action for a roll the flat portion of it cannot be removed or turned off.  In other words, it becomes identical to an established come bet, which also means that the default for any odds taken on it will be that they are not working on comeout rolls.

Another thing about heeling.  When giving the dealer odds for a come or don’t come bet I suggest putting them heeled on the line between Come and Field.  This placement is ambiguous and will require clarification should the dealer not see them, and the heeling will support your contention that they are odds (and not a new come or field bet) because that is how the dealer sets them up in The Forbidden Zone.

By the way, “The Forbidden Zone” is my own term, which I coined because players must keep their hands out of the point number boxes where come, don’t come, and place bets are set up.  I even heard a dealer tell a player who had reached into her work area to take down a place bet that she could legally break his hand if he did that again.  Turns out she was incorrect, but refusing to honor the sanctity of that area will get you escorted from the table.