Welcome to CrapsForum.com! Craps Forum is the premier online community for Craps Players to interact and learn from other like minded people. Sign up today and you will gain access to advanced gambling strategies, gambling tips, online casino reviews, bonus codes, and everything else you may need to become a more successful gambler. As a member you will enjoy access to more features and see fewer ads. Best of all, it is FREE so Click Here to Sign Up Now!
My name is Dale and I have been a dealer and supervisor for over thirty years. I have written ebooks on gambling and dealing as well as magazine articles. I used to post on the Google newsgroup but intelligent discussion ended there a long time ago.
I would be happy to answer your questions. All I want in return is to post the link to my website
I too have just joined this forum. Although I have not abandoned rec.gambling.craps completely the signal-to-noise ratio has become unacceptable there. I have to wonder if the departure of Mason, the guy we all loved to hate, was the triggering event.
Doogie’s been gone for several years, and my killfile took care of him. IMHO the group’s been dead for only the last year or two, and I understand a lot of Usenet groups have suffered a similar fate during that time frame. The proliferation of forums like this has been posited as a reason along with ISPs like AOL dumping their news feeds. Sign of the times I guess. At least this forum seems to be one for general discussion as opposed to being limited to “birds of a feather” (e.g. dice control advocates), although there are subgroups of that type, which I don’t mind at all.
I prefer making place bets. Thats pretty much what my style of play is based on. What is your opinion on turning place bets into put bets? I do it every now and again when i feel it is monetarily benefitial. I’ve done the math and come up with what i feel is the proper time to make the switch, whether im placing the 5, 6, 8, 9, or buying the 4 and 10. What do you recommend?
I only place the six and eight unless I’m really kicking ass, then I bet $20 outside ($5 each on 4, 5, 9 and 10) and press as high as the hand will take them. I forget the math for when a put bet is preferable but I assume when you can take 10x odds or greater. I never thought of doing that and I have never dealt to anyone who did that.
Well i’ve only done it myself a few times. Just recently i started to venture into the put bet idea. My local casinos have 100x odds available. So that really lends me a good advantage. For a 4 or 10, a 10 dollar flat with 390 odds pays 790, a 400 buy bet pays 780. 400 is one of my common presses, so i’ll switch over to put bets at 400 on a 4 or 10. The reason i chose 400 is because it gives me the 10 dollar cushion just encase the come out steals my flat bet.
For 5 and 9, a 10 dollar flat and 140 odds pays 220, and a 150 dollar place bet pays 210. For the 6 and 8, a 10 dollar flat and 350 odds pays 430 and a 360 dollar place bet pays 420. The 360 also falls in line with my presses. The 150 dollar 5 and 9 does not but i just wait until i have a 200 dollar 5 or 9 to switch over then.
You mentioned that you have never dealt to anyone who has does that. I’m surprised thats the case. I suppose in vegas with the 3x 4x 5x odds set up that not many people arent thinking about put bets unless they want to press past table max.
You also mentioned that you press as high as the hand will take you. I suppose you use a progression system and don’t consider removing bets then. I play the same way. What kind of pressing system do you use? heres mine, i’d appreciate any opinion you have.
After my last post I realized that in any casino that offered 10x odds or more usually didn’t allow put bets on the numbers. They only allowed put bets on the pass line.
As for your progression: it looks good. I was just saying that since I consentrate on the place six and eight, I will press outside numbers straight up to at least 50 or 100 before taking same bet.
What kind of progression do you use on the 6 and 8?
Also, what is your opinion on dealer courtesy moves at the table. The reason i’m asking is because ever since i started playing i’ve practiced dealer courtesy and always thought that most casino’s and dealers thrived on players that made it easier for them. Lately however i haven’t been getting the responses i thought i would.
This topic may not be very interesting, i just thought it would be nice to get a dealers insight to this idea.
I’m sure you know, but i;ll give you a few examples.
For example: When a 10 dollar 5 or 9 hits, or a 12 dollar 6 or 8, i usually drop a dollar for 15. That way its easier for the dealer to cut out 15 instead of 2 red chips and 4 white. Plus im not in the market of collecting all the casino’s white chips. This one doesn’t get me the bad remarks though. Most people do this anyways
Also, If i have a 15 dollar 5 or 9, and an 18 dollar 6 or 8, When it hits, i drop a nickel for 26 dollars. The way i look at it, its still easier to cut out a green and white, then 4 reds and a white. Plus i like getting paid in green. I was doing this at a local casino and was confusing the hell out of the dealer. She was new, so i told her what i wanted and why i wanted the 26, and she eventually understood, but she still made a lot of mistakes and it slowed her down. The boxman repeatedly made comments about how i wanted to confuse his dealer and why i had to make the game more complicated then it is. I took offense to the sarcastic comments, but stopped with dropping money on the layout for that session.
Another common thing i do, is when i have an 18 dollar 6 or 8, and want to press to 30, i drop a dollar on the layout. The reason being is once again its easier to cut two red chips and give it to me, then it is one red and 4 white. Plus like i stated before i don’t want to fill the rail with white chips. At numerous casinos, i get comments about why i do that. When i try to explain to them what the dollar is for, the dealer usually still cuts out a red chip with 4 whites and stacks it on my white chip and gives it back to me. I stopped a dealer at bally’s one time and explained to her to just put a quarter in the come, Grap the 18 dollars off the winning number, drop one red chip on the quarter, drop two red chips in front of me, and with the remaining 4 white chips, pick up my dollar and then put the 30 dollars sitting in the come back up as a place bet. I figured it was a quick move and i like getting the red chips back.
A couple of other things, is i will drop two dollars on the layout to press a 30 dollar 6 or 8 to 42. That why i get a quarter back.
Drop a dollar when a 35 dollar five or 9 hits, and im pressing to 50. That way i get 35 back and its a lots easier for the dealer to cut 50 dollars instead of 49.
Thats just a couple of examples. I don’t have a lot of issues in vegas, they usually roll with the punches, especially at caesars. Local casinos lately though, are full of comments about slowing the game down and trying to confuse the dealers by making it more complicated than it has to be. Maybe its a rash of new dealers. I really dont know. I thought a lot of players did this, but when i realized that i was getting bad remarks from the boxman and dealers more than good comments, i questioned what the problem was.
But im was curious as to what your opinion is on doing those things. To me they are easy and convenient. But what a dealers opinion.
<I stopped a dealer at bally’s one time and explained to her to just put a quarter in the come, Grap the 18 dollars off the winning number, drop one red chip on the quarter, drop two red chips in front of me, and with the remaining 4 white chips, pick up my dollar and then put the 30 dollars sitting in the come back up as a place bet. I figured it was a quick move and i like getting the red chips back.>
This is the only example of when you might have gone too far. The rest of them are standard moves, wiht the possible exception of “26 for 5” and that is still not too hard to understand.
I don’t appreciate the boxman’s comment and I don’t blame you for your reaction. But he wasn’t totaly out of line as he was, after all. just stating an opinion.
IMO the art of crap dealing and the discipline that was once expected from us have fallen by the wayside over the last twenty years or so. Much of this comes from the joints hiring girl dealers and not having the guts to expect them to perform. Another factor is the “dealer as entertainer” mindset which causes joints to care about hiring happy dealers and not caring whether they can actually deal the game.
As far as your presses go. I press six and eight either one unit every win or double the bet every other win. I would do the same for the outside numbers if I invest money I care about. But like I said before, when I bet the outside numbers it is usually because I’m investing diposable income, so I will press straight up a few times before I take same bet. But as long as you press bets when you win and go back to minimum when you lose: long winning streaks will always treat you better than the long losing streaks hurt you.
My name is Dale and I have been a dealer and supervisor for over thirty years. I have written ebooks on gambling and dealing as well as magazine articles. I used to post on the Google newsgroup but intelligent discussion ended there a long time ago.
I would be happy to answer your questions. All I want in return is to post the link to my website
Craps Forum
