Sancho Panza - 27 March 2010 06:23 PM

[quote author=“goatcabin”] Also, keep in mind that the DC bet has to get past the seriously-disadvantageous comeout roll to get to a number, after which the odds favor the DC. Placing the number damps variance, adds to expected loss, reducing the probability of coming out even or ahead.

With a large enough bankroll, a lay bet can provide a similar hedge—and for just one roll.

Huh? How is a lay a hedge against a don’t come number? This sub-thread is about hedging a DC number by placing the same number. What do you mean “and for just one roll”? Of course, you can take a lay down, but you can take a place down, too.
Not sure what your point is, here.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

goatcabin - 28 March 2010 09:39 AM

Sancho Panza - 27 March 2010 06:23 PM

goatcabin - 26 March 2010 10:00 AM

Also, keep in mind that the DC bet has to get past the seriously-disadvantageous comeout roll to get to a number, after which the odds favor the DC. Placing the number damps variance, adds to expected loss, reducing the probability of coming out even or ahead.

With a large enough bankroll, a lay bet can provide a similar hedge—and for just one roll.

Huh? How is a lay a hedge against a don’t come number?

Me thinks Sancho is referring to one of John Patrick’s methods—oops, I mean METHODS, since John always capitalized that word—namely, Ricochet.  Although a lay bet can be made on any number I believe the Ricochet in its purest form waited for a point to be established, then laid that number while making a DC bet for the amount the lay bet would win.  The new DC is thereby protected from the 7 during its comeout roll.  When the DC moves behind a point the lay bet is taken down.  Of course the new DC bet is exposed to a comeout 11 and the lay bet can be lost on the turn, but the devil itself cannot hurt you.

The Midnight Skulker - 29 March 2010 02:17 PM

goatcabin - 28 March 2010 09:39 AM

Sancho Panza - 27 March 2010 06:23 PM

goatcabin - 26 March 2010 10:00 AM

Also, keep in mind that the DC bet has to get past the seriously-disadvantageous comeout roll to get to a number, after which the odds favor the DC. Placing the number damps variance, adds to expected loss, reducing the probability of coming out even or ahead.

With a large enough bankroll, a lay bet can provide a similar hedge—and for just one roll.

Huh? How is a lay a hedge against a don’t come number?

Me thinks Sancho is referring to one of John Patrick’s methods—oops, I mean METHODS, since John always capitalized that word—namely, Ricochet.  Although a lay bet can be made on any number I believe the Ricochet in its purest form waited for a point to be established, then laid that number while making a DC bet for the amount the lay bet would win.  The new DC is thereby protected from the 7 during its comeout roll.  When the DC moves behind a point the lay bet is taken down.  Of course the new DC bet is exposed to a comeout 11 and the lay bet can be lost on the turn, but the devil itself cannot hurt you.

Well, that sounds like the opposite of what Sancho was saying. This METHOD is a DC as a hedge against the lay bet. This discussion was about a DP/DC established behind a number, then being hedged by a place bet. Still not sure…
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Sorry. Both of you are right. In my haste to leave on a trip to the corner of Flamingo Rd. & Audrie Lane, I slipped over the fact that the hedge was instituted after the DC number had been established.

As a sidelight, it turns out that Bally’s has a rule that requires odds bets (taken and laid) be for at least the table minimum. No one seemed sure of the rationale. An oddity is that laid odds have to end up at the minimum, as I learned at a $10 table when I tried to lay $12 odds against a DC 9.

I had never seen this twist before. My suggestion that it might be an effort to deter pains in the butt from laying, say, $6 odds didn’t get traction. All agreed about the lack of an edge and the volatility. So I complained about the ratings for odds wagers and got some different answers—from none to both the amount bet and the payoff, the last coming from a boxman/pit boss who said he was a don’t come player.

FYI-the yo was paying 14. Sort of on the chintzy side.

If these rules are a trial outing, they do not bode well for other Harrahs emporiums.

You can lay the point for a big.  I do this when the point is 4 or 10.  This usually works but I also profile the thrower before I do this and lay it a couple of rolls into the round.